Having some trouble understanding the Hay geneology.

+9 votes
Hello eveyone. I am Marilyn Humrichouser Albert and am trying to follow the Hay line in my family. I just came upon a written document that writes about discrepticies in the lines of the German Hay family. This came off of Ancestry.com and is on my tree there. If anyone wants to look at my tree to help see what I am talking about I will email my user name and password to someone for that perpose. This document is attached to Johann Simon Hoh (hay),

My family first came into contact with the Hay family when my Grandfather, Thomas Selby, 1782-1868, met and married Catherine Hay, 1780-1830. They were both from Virginia and moved to Jermoesville, Ashland County, Ohio, where they settles down. My family is still in that area today. They are buried in Jeromesville also. Catherine's father was Adam Hay/Hoh and they settled down in Amanda, Fairfield, Ohio. They are buried there.

Adam,12Feb1738-1803, along with his father Michael "John" Hay/Hoh, and four of his brothers immigrated from Germany and came to America. John Sr. and John Jr. settled in the area Philadelphia, Adam came to Ohio, and the other three brothers settled elsewhere in another area. His brothers were Valentine, Simon and Francis/Frantz.

John Hay/Hoh, 21Oct1682, was born in Hoheinod, Palatinate, Bayern, Germany and died 24Feb1757 in Ghardsbrunn, Palatinate, Bayern, Germany. This is where I got the three page document this part of the family. I have the copies of the first two, but I don't have WORD on my computer so I can't print or read what that document says.

This is also where I can't entry anymore information because I am not certified for the 1700's. Simon's father, John Hay, 21Oct1635 - 1704, but I am not sure where he was born. I have seen he was born in Scotland and seen he was born in Hoheinod, Bayern, Germany. and it says he died in Holy Trinity The Less, London, England, where he was buried.

This takes up back to Scotland. Simon is the son of -Died 1694 Gilbert, 11th Earl of Erroll, Hay, Born1609- Died 1694. He was married to Lady Katherine Carnegie, Mar1607 -1694

At that is the end of my report. I know the first part is true. The Selby family was a name that last until the Brandt's came into the family. Please don't hesitate to look at my lineage on Ancestry.com. There is nothing outlandish about my family. This might even straighten out some of the problems with the Hay line that others have been having. Thank you so much for your time.


Marilyn     (sorry for any mistakes, but was trying to hurry.)
in Genealogy Help by Marilyn Albert G2G3 (3.8k points)
You should take the pre 1700 self certification

2 Answers

+3 votes
Best answer
by Doug Lockwood G2G Astronaut (2.4m points)
selected by Mags Gaulden
Thanks Doug. I am really interested in this. I lost my lines of Alexander Magruder and Ninian Beall because the information wasn't right on Ancestry. A lot of their information is right, but when it is wrong it messes all of the trees up.

But I am going to follow you advice and 1700 certification. I will also take a look at the above to see what I am missing. This is like a scavenger hunt...you never know what you are going to find. And it makes it so much fun.

Thanks so much for you advise. I will let you know how it goes.

0 votes

Hi, Marilyn:

I'm a rookie at this, also researching the Hay line. 

Something rang a bell when you referred to "Hay/Hoh" though.  When I was in high school (1960s) there was an Army Captain named "Hoh".  It turned out that his family name was actually "Hohenzollern" back in Germany.  Since the original immigrant was from a minor branch of that family, and looking to make a clean break, he agreed with the immigration clerk who said, "Hoh?"  This may be a source of some confusion (on this side of the water,) particularly in the early 19th century records going forward.  On the other hand, it might be helpful for you on the German side.

There's also a story that (some of) the Hay family of Scotland made at least a temporary move to Germany, in re the religious wars surrounding Mary of Scots (Catholic) and Elizabeth I (Protestant.) I haven't seen good documentation on it, though, and it looks like the aristocratic Hay's did what all good aristocrats do, and changed themselves as required by poliitcal necessity (<g>witness: they are still the Earls of Errol, et al.)

Also, the Ancestry site seems to link all the Hay's to the Earls of Errol...which makes zero sense.  That particular line is very well documented in the National Biography of Scotland, and DeBrett's & Burke's Peerage(s).  It seems far more likely that the Hay's that beat feet across the pond were probably those clan members who were getting kicked off the land during the enclosures, or otherwise had a good reason to up sticks. 

"I have the copies of the first two, but I don't have WORD on my computer so I can't print or read what that document says.".....  I can't see your document, but try this trick: See if you can open it with whatever text editor you have (I use Linux, so I have GEdit and KWrite, as an example.)  It'll lose formatting, so you'll probably have pages of junk code at the beginning & end, but scroll through & see if your actual text is in there.  If that doesn't work, send back & let me know what the file extension is on the file you're trying to open...we may have seen the material before.

If you have any clues, I'm looking for Richard K Hay, b. ca1838, in Ohio.  He first shows in the 1850 census, living with a couple named Rurk, in Hamilton Cty, Ohio.

Best regards


by Amy Booth G2G Crew (350 points)

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