NeedHistory lesson Ireland late 18th, early 19th centuries.

Question

I have some ancestors with sketchy sources. Searches on 3 other locations reveal the names were not uncommon. There were a number of Dennis O'Regan, for example. I’m trying to use dates of birth, marriage, death. To resolve some of this, but sometimes the dates are estimated and the profile is for a person too young, too old for the event — not impossible but highly unlikely, say 120+  at death or 13 at marriage and mother at 13 or so. These people were not from noble families. To the best of my knowledge, they were farmers or laborers.

I’m confident that “Mary”  (example) O’Regan is unlikely to be a mother at 80+. I’m also pretty confident she’s not a mother at 5. But married at estimated 13 to a husband of estimated 18? Not so sure.

What I’d like is either:

    A reference to custom’s in Ireland at the time; or

    A short description of cf custom’s in Ireland at the time.

Relevant profiles are: Duffin-324; O'Regan-233; O'Regan-202; and O'Regan-216.

Thanks for any help!

Happy Holidays!

/s/jr

Comments

If you edit this post and add the location tag Ireland, you may get the attention of members with experience in this topic.

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Peggy

Ooopps! I know.better. Thanks for the reminder!

Happy Holidays!

/s/jr

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Actually, I believe Ireland Project members follow the tag IRISH_ROOTS , not Ireland – due to too many people names being Ireland.

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You could contact Ireland Reaching Out, free website, requires a sign up to ask questions, run by Irish Historians many of them academics,

Answer 1

No problem. Happy holidays to you too!

Answer 2

One thing that may help you is Irish Naming Patterns This can give you hints on possible family members. Be aware that if a child died young, the next child may have been named the same. 

As far as dates go try to find a source as close to the event as you can. Many of the Irish could not read or write during this time (it was illegal) and for many reasons would give a different date or age for an event. I have seen dates change by 3 to 20 years.

Comments

I’m aware of the Irish naming pattern. Unfortunately, for some generations I have no siblings. For others, I don’t see a pattern except for Dennis NMN and Lawrence Edward, as was an older brother, also son of Lawrence Edward. My father’s name has yet to be connected to ancestors, I have my father’s first name, Lawrence as my second.”

I don’t believe anyone in my generation or after has consciously followed the convention.

Thanks for the reminder. If I’d had any luck with great+aunts/uncles …

Happy Holidays!

/s/jr

Answer 3

Sorry I can’t point you in the direction of any websites on the information. Most of my research is slightly later… 1800 onwards. Whilst some marriages occur before 20, normally they are about 18 as the youngest, and it’s much more common to marry in their 20’s and 30’s, and potentially remarry as well a few years after the death of their spouse. My research is predominantly in the north, customs may vary in other parts.

Comments

So a marriage between a 13 year old female & 18 year old male was out of the ordinary. So either the estimated date of birth is wrong or I’ve got the wrong profile for the wife

That’s helpful.

Happy Holidays!

/s/jr

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Certainly in all the records I’ve come across, that’s not to say it never happened but I don’t think it would have been common. But if you know a townland or at least a parish, investigate all occurrences of that surname and variations that you can think of in that locality.

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I ran some searches at Ireland Reaching Out and found a marriage record that matched many of the details of the marriage of  O'Regan-216.and Callahan-3820, but not all:

• WT / IRO
• Dennis/Dens;
• O'Regan/Regan
• Catherine/Cath

 Complete details are in the Callahan profile.

I’m not the PM for Callahan’s profiles and it has no sources. I’m willing to concede my sources for her spouse could be stronger. Given Dennis’s names don’t match there is the possibility that the Dens in the marriage record is not O'Regan-216. Or maybe he is?

Happy Holidays!

/s/jr

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I’m not sure. What I do know is that there are certain formal shorthand’s used in the later registrations, such as Wm for William, Jno for John, Jas for James etc. whether Dens is the same sim not sure as it’s not a common name in my tree/research, and I’ve not looked in that time frame. I wouldn’t completely dismiss it.

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I haven’t:(

Iran into the same “name” in tax records

I was given some hints today, Keep searching’ searchin’ :(