Name Fields, Suffix for names at birth only? Can we update the Style page to include this suffix?

Question

In Canada people use all sorts of Suffix's on their business cards, letter heads and personal things.  It can be a simple as, M. Gaulden, BA (yes I would even put my tiny little bachelors degree at the end of my name) and as complicated as letters that go on forever.

These aren't suffix's at birth for sure.

There is one suffix at birth that Canadians can carry if they are a descendant of a United Empire Loyalist, UE.  This is the only hereditary title in Canada and it is given at birth.  This Honorific was established by Lord Dorchester’s Proclamation At the Council Chamber at Quebec, Monday 9th. November 1789.

There have been a couple of people noticing this suffix and assuming its use is a mistake, have attempted to have it corrected.  Per Canadian conventions, it does not need to be corrected.

Can we update the Style page on name fields to include this suffix for UEL and thier Descendants?

Example: Johannes Asselstine-23
Project: UEL

Mags

Comments

Fascinating. I don't have a problem with it being add to the list.

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@Mags:

That profile you linked to, Asselstine-23, is almost surely a member of the Ysselsteyn family of New Netherland (see Ysselsteyn-1 and family members), and his wife Catharina Cole is probably from the Kool/Cool descent in New Netherland. My ancestor Richard Esselstyne supposedly fought on the American side in the American Revolution, while his cousin Johannes Asselstine was a loyalist who left for Canada.

That war ended about 240 years ago, and it looks like we still have some split families to be reconnected.

Are you related to Johannes Asselstine?

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No I am not related to him.  He was the first one in the project - so easy to grab.  Yes 240 years and sometimes it feels like it is still happeneing.  LOL

Mags

Answer 1

Please, let's continue restricting suffixes to items that can be reasonably regarded as part of a person's name. It's interesting that UEL is a title bestowed at birth, but it's hard to imagine that this would be thought of as part of the person's name.

Rather than attempting to squeeze this kind of thing into the data fields (which are otherwise intended for basic "life facts" like name, birthdate, and birthplace), let's remind each other to include information on honors, university degrees, designations like UEL, and professional certifications in the biography. Far too many biography sections consist of nothing more than database fields, where they should provide textual descriptions of the person's life.

Comments

This would not go into a data field like name, birthdate and birthplace.  It would be in the suffix field - the ones already done are in the suffix field.  Mags

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The suffix field is a data field.

Answer 2

I have no problem with adding the suffix, UE, as described by Mags. It is at least awarded at birth. People do use the suffix field to add Sr., Jr., I, II, III, etc., to distinguish generations even though the individual may never have used these in their lifetimes.

Shirley

Answer 3

I guess my only thought on this, "is this any different than adding JD, MD, to a name?"

I do not have a problem with allowing this, but, where do we draw the line or do we need to?

Comments

The difference in this case Robin, is that UE is an honorary from birth where JD or MD are degress attained at some later point in life.

Mags

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Then, I think we have the criteria that we can add to styles, and that is a criteria of a suffix that is an honorary from birth....I can go with that.

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As it happens, a number of the profiles that currently have this suffix represent people who did not acquire this honorary designation at birth. These are people who were born in places that are now part of the United States and went to Canada during the American Revolutionary War.  Examples include Johannes Asselstine at the head of this discussion, Babbitt-340, Van_Alstine-83, and Jones-33609.

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I do see that point Ellen, that the original recipients were not designated at birth.  I don't  think this precludes adding it to them, though, if the children and descendants have it - here on WikiTree.

Mags

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I just spent a short Jaunt into the information I have on Peter Van Alstine-83 to see about a possible match and I see that some of his information does carry the UE.

Mags