Ancestry Lookup Request - Martin Winn

Question

Hi Folks, I wonder if some kind person can do an Ancestry.com lookup. This profile has me confused. Martin Winn, born 1844, Birtley, C Durham has a reasonable set of sources. Baptism, Census and marriage. (Winn-3609)

I can trace his life through Census records with a wife Mary along with children. But the more I looked, the more confued I am. He appears to have married a Mary Storey in 1864 (sourced). But as I added his children, some appear to have a mothers maiden name of Forbes even though they are attributed to Martin as father. However, I find no marriage for a Mary Forbes to Martin. A GRO search shows that almost all children except one have a maiden name of Forbes and even that one has a possible Forbes/Forber mother!!
Who is this Forbes person?

Several Family Trees on FS, FMP, Myheritage etc have a spouse mixture of Storey/Forbes and cannot be relied on as they provide no sources. This morning a Google search, found a Martin Winn b1844 with 10 children that appear to match, but no spouse on Ancestry.

This profile is still very much a work in progress to try and get it sorted and tidy as it is one of the pivot points between Winn and Wind surnames. It would be great to find a reliable source for Martin and his possible "Wives" to have a clear lineage of his children.

So, can someone please check the related records of Martin Winn B1844. Note that earlier records have the family as Wind and that name changes depending on transcriptions etc.  Thanks in advance.

Comments

Hi Greg. I looked a bit on Ancestry.  As far as I can see, there is much confusion between Mary Storey and Mary Forbes in dozens of different Ancestry trees, with no sources for a Winn-Forbes marriage, exactly as you say.

A hypothesis might be that a Mary born as Forbes married a man called Storey becoming Mary Storey, then married again under that name to Martin Winn. But I can't find any evidence for that.

I did find non-paywalled references for the Winn-Storey marriage, though these only confirm what you already know.

<ref>FreeBMD marriage, December quarter 1864 [https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=DL3khvicucLUO%2BKGlfwNGA&scan=1 Martin Winn]. District: Durham. Volume: 10a. Page: 404. Transcribed by: elbowgrease, Johnar. Accessed 3 February 2023.</ref>

<ref>FreeBMD marriage, December quarter 1864 [https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=RCPrd0WmCxU4MF0gui02uA&scan=1 Mary Storey]. District: Durham. Volume: 10a. Page: 404. Transcribed by: elbowgrease, JuliePhipps. Accessed 3 February 2023.</ref>

Answer 1

I wonder if that Mary is correct as it looks like one died in the same place early the next year    

STOREY, MARY         0
GRO Reference: 1847  M Quarter in HOUGHTON LE SPRING UNION  Volume 24  Page 143

Comments

I notice the 1881 census says Mary was born in 1847 in Ferry Hill. There was a Mary Forbes born that year in that place https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=DURHAM%2FBT%2FBAP%2F0011410

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It seems conclusive that the mother was Forbes (allowing for the notorious GRO mispellings)

WINN, JOHN         FORBES     
GRO Reference: 1865  S Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 303

WINN, WILLIAM         FORBES     
GRO Reference: 1867  J Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 358

WINN, ANN         FORBER     
GRO Reference: 1871  J Quarter in CHESTER LE STREET  Volume 10A  Page 512

WINN, MARTIN         FORBES     
GRO Reference: 1875  J Quarter in CHESTER LE STREET  Volume 10A  Page 675

WINN, MICHAEL         FORBUS     
GRO Reference: 1877  M Quarter in STOCKTON  Volume 10A  Page 129

WINN, THOMAS         FORBUS     
GRO Reference: 1879  M Quarter in STOCKTON  Volume 10A  Page 108

WINN, ELIZABETH         FORBES     
GRO Reference: 1880  D Quarter in STOCKTON  Volume 10A  Page 89

WINN, MARY         FORBES     
GRO Reference: 1887  J Quarter in CHESTER-LE-STREET  Volume 10A  Page 516

It may be that either they didn't get married or the record isn't available, or Storey was an error. Not very conclusive I know!

Edit: i think she would have been a bit young for it to be a second marriage.

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You're right about her age, Gill.

I wonder very speculatively if instead something might have happened to her Forbes parents, and she was adopted (informally probably in those days) by a family called Storey. She may have used their name when she married, but her birth surname on the records for the births of her own children.

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I have a Mary Forbes born Sep 1847, to Michael and Ann in Chilton, Ferryhill. But no marriage that I can see to Martin ...

I have been looking at Allergations of Marriage but no sign there either.

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Ohhhh.... now that sounds a possibility that fits closer to the facts. I wonder if that can be seen on census... checking

Answer 2

Looking on Ancestry and FMP, I was unable to find a 'Mary Storey bc 1847 Ferryhill, Durham' on the 1851 census.  There is, however a Mary Forbes bc 1847 Ferryhill, Durham on the 1851 census in the household of Martin Forbes and his wife Anne Forbes (nee Parkinson).  The two other children in the household - John and William - have the mother's maiden name of Parkinson on their birth registrations but I am unable to find a birth registration for Mary Forbes.

I would suggest a copy of the 1864 marriage certificate may help solve the problem.

Answer 3

Hi, thanks for looking everyone. I have ordered a quick search and copy of the image from Durham records that may help with checking  the marriage. I am beginning to suspect that the M Forbes/Storey may be the same person, or there is a family mystery. The birth records do seem to indicate Forbes was the mother, but ATM the current marriage transcript doesnt support that.

Answer 4

Hi Folks. I think we may have solved this family mystery.

I obtained a quicksearch image of the marriage of Martin Winn and Mary Storey 1864. This confirms these names along with father Michal Storey both of Framwell Gate Moor. This is where it gets interesting. Michael Storey is I am sure Micheal Forbes (illegitimate son). All the family names and places line up and even Mary appears on census as a Forbes.

So, the belief is that Michael knew his fathers name and started using it. For some reason, mary and Micheal used that name "Storey" on the marriage cert, even though they were of the Forbes family. Mary later used Forbes as the MMN on the childrens birth regs.

Its all circumstancial, but the census, birth records etc all line up. Its going to be a long explanation in a Bio for anyone whho comes after though. So I can see why so many trees have it all mixed up and missing sources.