Can we connect Thomas Paine to the family tree?

Question

Thomas Paine is not connected to the Global Tree. It seemed such a surprise until I took a few minutes to look around his family and saw why-there just wasn't much to go on. After a lot of digging I was able to add to his second wife's family,the Ollives, but am now without time to keep doing so.

Who wants a challenge and is skilled in 1500's-1700's English research? I did what I could with what sources I could decipher on Ancestry and some other historical websites, but I know we have far more better equipped WikiTreers here who could make this happen.

Thank you!

Comments

Wikipedia has his father as Joseph Paine and mother as Frances Cocke.

Answer 1

I am pleased to report that Thomas Paine-1 is now connected to the Global Wiki Family Tree along with his Ollive and Dobell relations who made it possible and those who worked assiduously last year to achieve this goal!

Comments

Thank you, Christopher!!!

Answer 2

Abby, I've already entered all I could find on his first wife, Mary Lambert (which wasn't much).    Maybe someone else could have a go?

Comments

Thanks, Nan. I wasn't able to find much on her, either. Things that sounded promising, but no sources to back the promise.

Answer 3

Thomas Paine

Father

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

spouse: Mary

child: Thomas Paine

 

Thomas Paine

Father

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

spouse: Mary

child: Hannah Paine

 

Thomas Paine

Father

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

spouse: Mary

child: Sarah Paine

 

Thomas Paine

Father

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

spouse: Mary

child: Rebecca Paine

Comments

Thank you, Frank.   But according to what we have so far, Thomas and Mary were only married for two years before she died.

Answer 4

Not that I rely on Geni, but they have some interesting data to review.

http://www.geni.com/people/Thomas-Paine/6000000014544494550

I'd say at the very least we could use some of this to do some fact checking on them. I've found many times they're right, but just need some sourcing to back them up - however, I've also seen blatant errors there too - so use with caution.

Geni shows a second wife, Elizabeth, 2 children, and a sibling.

And here's another link, that may explain why Geni got it wrong...

http://www.deloriahurst.com/deloriahurst%20page/3540.html

According to the article, there was more than one Thomas Paine around at the time, and they often get confused together. So yet another caution to watch carefully to keep them separated.

One more link. Bio states that "Paine's wife and child died in childbirth", so he may have had a child with Mary, but the baby was born and died on the same day (according to them).

http://www.biography.com/people/thomas-paine-9431951#early-life-england

So I don't think he had any children, but we might conceivably connect him through parents or wife.

Comments

Thanks for looking into it, Scott. What I was able to find was that Thomas was married twice. His first wife, Mary, did have a child. There is a slight disagreement whether the child died at birth or a few months after, but either way Mary and the daughter both died within months of the birth. Thomas later married Elizabeth Ollive. She looks the most promising for finding a link, as she has several siblings and the Ollives were throughout Suffolk, and someone with some time to look at records and add family should be able to get them traced out far enough to connect into the tree.I added some of what I found from several books written on Paine, as well as a few records from Ancestry, but yes, there are definitely a lot of places for confusion to happen as there were more than one of many people, not just Thomas, with the same name.

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Another link to rule out - showing a child born in 1800... he separated from his 2nd wife in 1774 and according to all sources I checked, never reconciled with her, but at the same time, it appears they may have remained legally married?

Regardless, here's the link for the ancestral file on Family Search - I find the documentation lacking and the child not substantiated by facts.

"Pedigree Resource File," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:37CL-NS8 : accessed 2015-06-05), entry for Thomas /Paine/.

 

 

 

 

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Right, he didn't have children with her. There is a document with an official separation, but they kept it quiet for her sake. Plenty of people have tried, it seems, to connect him to their families, but without sources to back it up!

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I found a copy of his legal deed of seperation from Elizabeth online:

http://historysheroes.e2bn.org/hero/othersources/81/21

Interesting that it mentions a witness, John Ollive - must have been her relative - possibly a father or brother.

Wiki says his landlords were Samuel and Esther Ollive, presumably Elizabeth's parents. I'm seeing her birth year between 1745-1755, most likely 1749 or 1753. Married in 1771 - separated in 1774. Appears to be no children, looks like all they did was argue and fight, or at least that's what history says of them.

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Weak source - no solid support, but this at least references her brother Thomas. Just not sure how much to rely on this.

"International Genealogical Index (IGI)," database,FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:MRQ8-BCD : accessed 2015-06-05), entry for Elizabeth Ollive.

 

 

 

 

 

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Some nice write-ups here - a small tidbit or two about Elizabeth, her parents, and the separation.

http://strike-the-root.com/3/smith/smith12.html

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I thought it timely to take up the Connectors role and continue the search for a link! Thanks for your great finds Scott - they make great reading about a great mind in Thomas Paine, showing how our conditioning directs our lives! As the Separation Agreement indicates, Elizabeth Ollive's father Samuel had four children, one of whom was John Ollive born 1744 so he would undoubtedly have been the witness on the document. I have been growing the Ollive and Dobell families as they seem to be the most likely to already have connections, in Sussex or Kent.