Where did the storm of Hold Requests come from?

Question

I am concerned about the waste of resources while people are debating the recent post https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1535091/what-do-you-think-of-this-proposed-policy-on-hold-requests?show=1536291#c1536291
How has this become such a huge debate?

Comments

My answer to that is at this link. To save clicks I repeat it here.

Steve, conflicting interests do generate debate. Both unhindered collaboration and Project Trails operating through a good supply of suitable profiles are worthy goals, but as things are now they are in opposition. Some people do have concerns. Vigorous expression of views from either side is healthy, not chaotic, and should lead in time to viable compromise. It's better that people register their reservations now, and have them heard, so that we don't rush into an attempted solution that misses some important aspect.

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Are you saying people are already using this template while it is still under discussion?

Because if what you're meaning to say is that the current discussion is largely a "storm (aka tempest) in a teacup / teapot", that is a different meaning from how I read your "storm of requests".

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Melanie, I think what Steve is talking of is a "storm about Hold Requests". Nonetheless, it's true that

{{Hold Request}}

already works: I just tried it (preview only, I didn't save).

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Possibly, Jim, but where I went to school "of" and "about" didn't mean the same thing.
(It would have to work already, or the examples on the help page would not.  But my understanding is that it should not actually be being used (except, perhaps, as an example) until it has been officially approved - presumably by the community, as that's what the major thread is all about.)

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It's obvious from the body of Steve's question what the title meant.

The process for developing a new rule has a long way to go yet. No vote is so far taking place. That Help page says

Highly controversial rules are not usually implemented. They are usually discussed until major objections are overcome or a compromise is found. Ideally, we aim for consensus.

Answer 1

Can I put in a plea for members not to discuss in this conversation the substance of the proposal at https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1535091/what-do-you-think-of-this-proposed-policy-on-hold-requests?show=1535091#q1535091. We do not want two sets of discussion of the same proposal.

Answer 2

I think its more the principle, that a proposal was made to create an official policy that would discourage collaboration in contravention with other policies about collaboration.

"Be bold, edit any profile......unless...."

Chris said that hold requests are specifically not in the spirit of current policy in the thread.

If we can find a way to make it easy to find profiles for trailers, then I think the need to place holds might just go away

Comments

As was stated in the other post, using Wikitree + to find profiles for the Trails can be and is used frequently for the initial step, but personal intervention is needed after that to determine if sources are available for those profiles.

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Good point, Linda. I don't think there's any way (pace the over-egged claims of AI) to automate checking for availability of the right kinds of sources.

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Im not sold on that need, seems like learning to juggle without learning how to drop things.  Not finding sources and figuring out what to do next is a huge part of genealogy.

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Very depressing experience for a beginner though. Leave that until after they've successfully completed some Trail profiles.

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Everyone knows wikitree has a learning curve. Let the beginners on wikitree work on some easy to source profiles to learn how to create a biography, how to source citations, how to check suggestions to make sure they didn't format something incorrectly, etc. Once they feel confident doing that. Then have them work on profiles with harder to find or harder to prove dates and facts, but still give them a profile they can work on and not get frustrated and give up on wikitree.

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@Linda

As was stated in the other post, using Wikitree + to find profiles for the Trails can be and is used frequently for the initial step, but personal intervention is needed after that to determine if sources are available for those profiles.

That can still be done, with or without Hold Requests. Go find and vet and 100 profiles and throw them in a category, but without any type of hold on them (reserved for XX trail, etc.). If someone are worked on and go missing form the category, no big deal.

For all other cases, Help:Communication Before Editing still applies.

Answer 3

It's how we create new policy or change existing policy, with open debate. It's messy, but it works.