Announcement of the Free Space Y-DNA Babcock-Badcock Project

Question

The project was created to disseminate Y-DNA findings pertinent to the Babcock-Badcock surname.  Y-DNA results at Family Tree's Babcock-Badcock Project have revealed the likelihood of two separate 'founder events' for the Badcock surname — one in Massachusetts and one in Rhode Island.  Without question, Y-DNA is indicating that descendants of Robert Badcock d 1694 and George Badcock d 1671 are genetically disparate from descendants of John Babcock (1644-1685) who was the son of James Badcock (1612-1679).  Descendants of Robert and George of the Milton, Massachusetts settlement are of the ' I ' haplogroup and descendants of John of the Westerly, Rhode Island settlement are of the ' E ' haplogroup.  Seemingly in the future we will be able to parse Babcock-Badcock lineages, i.e., whether their ancestors hail from settlements in Massachusetts or Rhode Island, for descendants who have a patrilineal Babcock-Badcock line and who Y-DNA test.

Answer 1

Congratulations on setting up this DNA project here!

I would also suggest that you link your Free Space page to the Babcock Name Study here on WT, and vice versa:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Babcock_Name_Study

Comments

Eric,

I have placed the link for the Babcock Name Study in the Y-DNA Babcock-Badcock Project's URLs.  Am I able to do the same within the Babcock Name Study of placing the Y-DNA Babcock-Badcock Project's URL or does that task need to be performed by the profile manager(s) of the Babcock Name Study?

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The Babcock Name Study is an Open profile, which means anyone can edit it, including you. I would suggest both: edit it yourself to get the info in there, but also reach out to the manager of the Name Study for collaboration purposes between the two.

Answer 2

Hi Kent! I am curious about one of my Babcock ancestors who seems to have unproven paternal heritage and wondering if you had any discoveries with him and his line? Amos Babcock https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Babcock-7411

There's more info in his desscription. I also joined your FamilyTreeDNA group too so do let me know how I can help. Happy to share anything I have :)

Molly

Comments

One thing I noticed while researching your Amos Babcock's family (Babcock-7411) was that he has a living Babcock descendant who is active on wikitree, has posted a GEDmatch result, and seems to be very knowledgeable about DNA based those very cool "proven with DNA" tags visible on his ancestor chart. He looks like a potential resource if you were to want to find someone capable of defining the Y-DNA signature of Amos's line...though I think it is no mystery that your Amos was a Rhode Islander and somehow would probably have descended from James Babcock b1612....but how? I was stumped.

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Molly,

Thank you for joining the Babcock-Badcock Project on Family Tree!  I would pursue R Adams' guidance of contacting the descendant of Amos Babcock.  If this individual is a male whose patrilineal line is Babcock, we need to ascertain what DNA testing he has done and would he consider submitting a sample for Big Y 700 analysis (if he has not already done so)?  Further Big Y results may assist in parsing the multiple Babcock lines further.  Certainly DNA results do not singly establish a connection.  However, the results do provide a direction to pursue and are quite deterministic in ruling out many lines as possibilities.  Fingers crossed he might be amenable and also willing to join the Family Tree Babcock-Badcock Project to make his results readily available.

Answer 3

Those graphics on the new free space are really a surprise! Am I reading it right that the "E" and "I" groups diverged in the stone age about 65,000 years ago?

Sounds like if we can get more people to submit Babcock-Badcock line Y DNA test results it would help us learn more, especially about those weird mutations that split off the "E" line more recently than the stone age and about the other sons' lines leading back to James Babcock b.1612 since the "E" line is stumped at just one of his sons now.

I have a theory that there are actually at least 5 genetically distinct Babcock subgroups in North American, but that the Milton Massachusetts line and the Westerly Rhode Island line will account for 90-95% of them....so this "E" versus "I" distinction is especially useful.The other lines in my theory are the Bay Roberts Newfoundland Badcock line, the African American Babcocks of Hartford (descendents of Primus Babcock) , the Ashford Connecticut line of Amos Babcock Esq. and spouse Annah Watkins, and possibly the Haverstraw/Rockland New York line who are maybe from Westerly and maybe not.

So Kent, From your perspective what are the advantages and disadvantages of the various Y-DNA tests? There seem to be various types of tests. If anybody with the Babcock-Badcock surname considering testing or is just sitting on their Y-DNA results, maybe now is a good time to share!

Comments

R Adams — Your interpretation is correct.  Haplogroups are designated by a letter such as E or I or R for example.  This letter designation is also included with the SNP that defines a specific clade or group such as E-FT216584 or I-FTC83788.  The branch points for all of the haplogroups occurred very distant in the past, long before genealogical, or even historical, times.  The E and I haplogroups are, for all intents and purposes, totally genetically disparate.

The more Y-DNA data we have to consider, the more insights derived from that data will be provided to us.  There are three categories that having Big Y 700 results would be especially revealing regarding the insights provided.

Having descendants of James (1641-1698), Job (1646-1718), or Joseph (1670-  ) Big Y 700 test might prove especially illuminating regarding not only themselves but their father as well.  All three are sons of James Badcock (1612-1679) of Westerly, RI.  We already have descendants who have Big Y 700 tested who trace their lineage to James’ (1612-1679) other son John (1644-1685) for comparison.

Having descendants of George Badcock d 1671 and Robert Badcock d 1694 of Milton, MA would be beneficial merely to increase the number of testers, and therefore results, as we currently have an N = 2.

Having a Badcock or Babcock descendant whose family remained in England and did not emigrate to North America Big Y 700 test could provide many answers and initiate a whole set of new questions at the same time.  We might be able to achieve that same sought after information by a Badcock or Babcock descendant who directly emigrated to New Zealand or Australia from England Big Y 700 test.

Currently we have four descendants who trace their lineage to John (1644-1685) and Mary Lawton.  One descendant hails from John (1669-1746), one from Oliver (1683-1773), and two from Job (1671-1745).  Therefore Big Y 700 testing by descendants of John and Mary’s other sons would also be trail blazing.  I am referring to James (1664-1737), George (1673-1756), Elihu (1675-1738), Robert (1678-1719), and Joseph (1681-1742).

My apologies should my knowledge be incomplete (e.g., an ancestor that never had children) or in error regarding a date.  Also I am certain that some of these lines went extinct.  Regardless, I hope this post provides some guidance and encouragement going forward.

And the bottom line is that any male whose patrilineal line follows the Babcock or Badcock surname and who Big Y 700 tests will be contributing to the Babcock-Badcock Y-DNA database.  Hopefully they will also join Family Tree’s Babcock-Badcock Project where their findings are made readily available to draw comparisons and add to our knowledge base pertaining to the Babcock-Badcock surname.

Answer 4

We are hoping to enlist males whose patrilineal line is Babcock or Badcock to Y-DNA test and join the Babcock-Badcock Project on Family Tree.  The findings may help us to identify and sort conflated lineages with ancestors having the same first name (as well as surname), a problem that is prevalent throughout genealogical researching.  This issue has presented those researching the Babcock surname more than one conundrum regarding which Job, Benjamin, or David, for example, is with which lineage during the exodus to Canada around the time of the Revolutionary War.  So please entertain this request and/or pass the solicitation on to someone who might be able to assist us in this endeavor.  Many thanks!