G2G: Yellow privacy spouses disappeared

+13 votes
625 views

We have numerous Notable profiles opened to Yellow privacy, and I'm beginning to notice spouses disappearing from the main view of the profile, yet they show up in Edit view. Even if I have profile manager rights to both profiles, they don't appear. It's causing significant issues, as people presume (and for good reason) that the spouse is not added to the profile, and when I look, they are correct, but when I try to add the spouse, it tells me it is already added. I would have sworn this was not an issue until possibly the more recent updates, but I could be wrong. Did this change and if so, why? And example is in the link. Fox is supposed to show Vanessa Williams as spouse, who is also yellow privacy, but she doesn't show at all. Neither does he on her profile. Yet they're connected. Very frustrating...

WikiTree profile: Ulrich Fox
in WikiTree Tech by Scott Fulkerson G2G Astronaut (1.6m points)

5 Answers

+10 votes

Here's what the Help page says:

When a person's privacy level is set at Private with a Public Family Tree or higher, nuclear relatives will appear on the person's profile and family tree if those relatives also have public family trees. However, spouses are treated a little differently than parents, siblings, and children. Living spouses will not appear on each other's profiles even if they both have public family trees.

Spouses are shown in the Connection Finder and may appear in other contexts, if both spouses have public family trees. It is only the public profile display that is restricted.

by Kathie Forbes G2G Astronaut (1.0m points)

This is not new.  My late husband does not show on my public view, even though he is deceased.  *I* am living, and that is what counts.

Hrm... I know I just saw the opposite of this as well. Where they "did" show up on each other's profiles too. I'm going to have to find some examples of that and see if we can find out what is happening differently there. I'm not on the public view as far as I know, so it's just... odd.

I guess I sort of get that from a public view standpoint that there might be restrictions there, but if you're the profile manager of both profiles, I really don't understand why it won't show up then. I'll hunt down other examples, as I see several threads that note inconsistencies in the way this is applied to almost exact same profile types.

So here's the exact opposite. Tiger Woods. I can see his Notable wife Elin in normal view for me as profile manager. But yet I can't see Mr. Fox's wife in normal view for me as profile manager. It's just inconsistent...


Even weirder... I "can" see Fox's Notable daughter. To my understanding, this privacy rule does not cover parents, but it does cover spouses and children, so it's just very inconsistent.

Hum... so I deleted the spouse and readded her, and now I can see her. Still confused as to why that made a difference. This probably needs someone on the tech side to review it, but now that I've fixed this one, I'd have to find another that is broken like that...

Scott, if you do find another one let me know. If you are on the TL you should be able to see family members.

I don't know if it will re-show the same behavior if I back out the change, but we could give that a try if it's a weird bug. I'll give it a shot...

Guess I never tried to revert a change like that - it doesn't appear that's as easy as I thought. I'll just keep an eye out for more occurrences, as it does look like an odd bug. Hopefully it's just isolated to a few profiles. Thanks.

+9 votes

I believe this has been the situation for quite a long time. For example see the following discussion from 2021, which includes a few comments from Jamie - https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1263656/prince-phillip-not-showing-queen-elizabeths-husband-any-more.

by Paul Masini G2G6 Pilot (486k points)

Agreed - and that extended to a discussion from 2016. And I recall reading that one from way back when. There's something unusual when you're the profile manager and can't even see this information. I'm not even using the public view. Really weird.

+7 votes

I first noticed this issue when looking for Bill and Hillary Clinton. Fortunately, someone was thoughtful enough to place the following note on Bill's page:

"Please note: because of WikiTree's Privacy Policy, Hillary (Rodham) Clinton does not show as his wife."

A second point of note is that full names are not shown in Yellow privacy level profiles. For example. "President William Jefferson (Bill) Clinton III formerly Blythe" appears only as "President Bill J. Clinton III formerly Blythe". 

It's a bit of an annoyance, but then again, a year ago we couldn't see living profiles at all so we're making progress.

 

by David Randall G2G6 Pilot (488k points)

I have seen those notations, just wasn't sure why they were there. Now it makes sense. But just not looking forward to going through 4000 profiles to see if I need to add a note to each regarding this...

Of course, the option is to respond to 4000 emails, which is a bit overwhelming too... It would be easier if I could see them. Then at least I could just respond "of course they're there", but instead because I can't even see them with full rights to both profiles and in a private view, I have to take even longer per profile to review it, and maybe even edit it, before I can see if it's already connected. Just frustrating...

David - if you can attempt to do the same thing I did with Fox and Williams - delete the spouse and re-add - and let me know if that helps. It was very odd that even in my private view that the Fox/Williams marriage didn't show up, although I totally understand the public view restriction. But if you can see it in the private view, this won't do anything to help.

+6 votes
Can the spousal no show policy be reconsidered?  In my view of Scott's example, Fox and Williams should show as married as they both have yellow privacy.  If they had a child who was notable or deceased regardless of whether whether they were married, they would both show as parents on the child's profile. Why not show if they are married?
by Russell Butler G2G6 Pilot (207k points)

I went back through the old threads, and it appears there are some legacy reasons why this is done. From what I can piece together, when the site was established, for better or worse, they set up the privacy this way and there were numerous people who joined with the clear understanding that it would continue to work this way. They liked the idea that others could not view their personal information like their spouses and children unless they explicitly allowed it. When the discussion was going on in 2016, and there was rumor that they were considering changing that policy, these same individuals went to Chris W. and again reminded him that they joined with the understanding it would never change, and should they change it, they wanted out and wanted their data out too. It appears it became a bit of a challenge to somehow balance the viewpoint I think we're seeing, which is that it seems logical that if a movie star marries another movie star, or a politician marries a politician, and they're all famous and public, then their relationships should show as well. However, there's the private individual who wants to maintain their privacy to consider as well, and for now, that overrides the challenge we face with maintaining Notables.

If you want to re-open this discussion, I'd suppose we'd need a separate G2G with a propopsal to place on the floor of what we would like to see. For example, do we want to be able to see other non-private/unlisted persons on a yellow privacy profile? What other persons? Just spouse? Children? Brothers/Sisters? Parents? Or all of the above. We'd want to think through the wording and be careful how it is presented. Do we want this on an opt-in basis? Check box for displaying non-private nuclear family members? Or just display them all? Anyway, that's what I would recommend if you want to open this can of worms again.

if we can presume that those going to Chris who want it to remain the same, are NOT famous, then I would suggest an easily programmed in.separation between yellow wikitree profiles AND profiles that have the Notable designation that also happen to be yellow.

If this doesn't work, maybe we can make a new policy for a new color category that includes ONLY Notables who by definition are public figures.

For those who are notable (i.e. having a notable box or sticker), spouses should be viewed in the same manner that children and parents already can be viewed.

+6 votes

I'd love for this no show policy for spouses to be changed. It makes absolutely no sense! Parents show, children show, but not spouses? You'd think the children would need to be more private than the spouses. Ales told me this is just the way it's always been, but I think it's time for an update!

by Emma MacBeath G2G Astronaut (1.4m points)

See my response to Russell above. There are mitigating reasons this was done. I suspect many things have changed since 2016, so maybe the viewpoint on this is different now.

It seems like they could very easily add a button for WikiTree members to hide any attached family from public view (even deceased attached family) or the reverse, to show the family (so hide is the default)

If someone doesn't want their family members to show, there is already a way for that to happen.  They just set the privacy level to "Private with Public Biography" -

"Same as Private but anyone can view the biography section."

Yes, but the yellow privacy allows them to show the biography plus their tree, but not their spouse.

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