Comments on Thomas Gardner of Salem 1591-1674

Question

On 16 Feb 2023 Bob Dunlap wrote on Gardner-159:

It has been a couple of years since M Cole posted a question as to checking out the Sherborne Parish Registers. I just finished going through them from 1575 to 1637. There are baptism records there (all available on ancestry.com, Dorset, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812.) The records don't all appear on the index, so you have to browse the images, but the baptisms of ALL of Thomas and Margaret's children, as shown on Thomas Gardner's will and in Anderson's Great Migration Begins, are shown in Sherborne, except of course Seeth, and also I couldn't find Joseph, perhaps because a lot of the lines are pretty illegible. But the last one recorded in Sherborne was Miriam, March 24, 1632/33. It appears to me that Thomas and his family did not go to America until close to the time he appears in the Salem records as a selectman in 1635 (per Great Migration Begins). This indicates to me that it was a different Thomas Gardner who was part of the Dorchester Company, and history needs to be slightly tweaked. Has this already been addressed?

Answer 1

Bob, this is very good research and conclusively proves the English origins of Thomas Gardner of Salem. I would also agree that he is not the Thomas Gardner who immigrated in 1624. He begins to appear extensively in the Salem records in 1635, and he certainly immigrated in late 1634 or early 1635.

It would be very helpful if you put the baptisms of his children found in Sherborne, Dorset in a research notes section as they have not yet been published.

Comments

Do you have a link to the original parish records of Sherborne?

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Here (https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2243/images/32435_239681-00451) is the baptism of Ricardus Gardner filius [Thomae?] Gardner on 20 July 1622.

There is a word after [Thomae?] Gardner which might be an occupation? I don't know if Bob can read this or not -- I would really only be confident that it says Ricardus Gardner filus T[something] Gardner m***** bapt**.

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I tentatively read this as "Richardus Gardiner filius Thomae Gardiner minoris bapti", with the "i" in Gardiner debatable, and the "minoris" somewhat uncertain.  "Minoris" would be the Latin equivalent of the colonial "junior", meaning only that the individual is the younger of two local Thomases – not necessarily a likenamed son.

I'm now scanning the image for any other use of "minoris", or the appearance of any other Thomas – especially one labeled "majoris".

Thanks to Bob Dunlap for his research into this maternal ancestor of my family.

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Followup: based on other entries in that same image, the qualifier may be "iunoris" – junior – rather than "minoris" as I at first read it.

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I'm not sure how to get all this into Research Notes. But here are all the relevant entries, along with the image of the Sherborne PR where they can be found:

Oct. 30, 1591, Thomas Gardiner, bapti, Image 388

June 5, 1598, Margaret Ffriar, bapti, Image 398

April 28, 1617, Thomas Gardiner et Margaret Ffrier nupti, Image 424

March 8, 1617[/18], Thomas Gardiner filius Thomas Gardiner bapti, Image 425

Jan. 1, 1619[/20], George Gardiner filius Thomas Gardiner bapti, Image 427

July 20, 1622, Richardus Gardiner filius Thomas Gardiner _______(?) bapti Image 431

Dec. 7, 1624, John Gardiner filius Thomas Gardiner menori(?) bapti, Image 435

July 18, 1627, Samuel Gardener filius Thomas Gardener bap, Image 439

Feb. 6, 1630[/31], Sara Gardiner filia Thomas Gardiner bap, Image 444

Mar. 24, 1632[/33], Miriam Gardiner filia Thomas bpt, Image 447

I have found no record for Joseph, probably because many of the lines are illegible, and the record for Richard, I think must refer to a child who died young, as Thomas' known son Richard died in Nantucket in 1724 at the age of 92, indicating his birth to be around 1632. That baptism could also be in the records but illegible. Overall, though, I think this is pretty convincing that the Thomas Gardner who attempted the settlement at Cape Ann in 1624 and then became one of the first settlers of Salem was different from this one. I have documented every Gardner/Gardiner/Gardener and Ffrier/Ffriar I could find in the Sherborne PR from 1572 to 1637; there are a total of 90 Gardiner and 10 Ffrier entries, bapti, nupti and sepul, so from these records I think it is impossible to infer any parentage of Thomas, or even Margaret. Before 1604 no parents were named. There are several Thomas Gardiners who were baptized, married and buried throughout those years. But the only other family who seemed to be having children at the time was that of a Robert Gardiner. I don't have much doubt that all the baptisms naming Thomas as the father were for our Thomas.

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Here is a link to the Sherborne Parish Registers:

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2243/images/32435_239681-00444?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=9f3ceec26ab6123ca880474190fd377f&pId=1438690

That gets you to the page where the marriage record for Thomas and Margaret is. But once you are there you can browse the entire register.

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One more note on the previous list of baptisms: I had noted that Richard Gardiner bapt. 1622 was probably not the same one who went to Nantucket, because that one died in 1724 aged 92. I took that from Anderson's Great Migration Begins, but looking at the Nantucket VR, that was his wife Sarah who died in 1724 aged 92. Richard died in Nantucket 23d 1 mo. (March ?) 1688 (/89) so very likely that 1622 baptism is for him. Sorry for the confusion

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Bob, thank you for the research and bringing it to light! One note on Richard (my ancestor), I think that if the death record says 23d 1st. mo 1688, it would be 23 Mar 1687/8  not 1688/9. Cheers!

Edit: on second thought, I suppose it isn't altogether clear which side of the double date they were on. Calling it the first month l, I figured they were acknowledging the new year, but the new year actually began on the 25th, so perhaps your take is the better one.

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Daphne, I have no faith in the consistency of the entries in the Nantucket VR. Richard is my ancestor also, four times through four of his children, so I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out how they entered information in there. I have found several instances where it appears the transcriber, who would have done this way past the 1752 date when we switched to the Gregorian calendar, took it upon himself to correct the "1 mo." and actually call it January. But as far as a date of 23d. 1 mo. 1688, if you read it the way it would have been presented in the Dorset Parish Records, for example, January 1688 would have followed December 1688, and thus be January 1688/89; or in this case, March. (or January? who knows!)

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Since I started this work, I have wondered why Thomas Gardner was not on the list of old planters. Even the Societies showed the split: Old Planters of Beverly, Old Planters of Massachusetts.

The former were of the Cape Ann transition through Massey's Cove for a winter. The latter were those here before Winthrop's arrival but not of Plymouth.

Lots of esteemed names were on the list of members.

One aspect of the question, where was Thomas, has been resolved. What are the other questions?

BTW, got here today from looking at the Conant page which I went to after reading on Gloucester (their 400th) and then seeing Seeth Gardner and following that to Thomas' page. And, surprise.

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Like Thomas and Margaret with two daughters married to men of Cape Ann, many Gardner descendants have several Cape Ann families on ther lineage, so we can switch the focus to them. For instance, the early Woodbury tales will be reviewed, again.

Too, John Gardner did mention that his father told him that they were from Sherborne. We got that from the retrospective of the Folger patriarch.

Scrutiny of all that has been said/written from the beginning now takes on a new meaning. I had been going through these, anyway, to get some feel for who knew what  and, perhaps, how they might have known or thought that they did.

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The renewal.

https://thomasgardnerofsalem.blogspot.com/2023/03/new-not-old-planter.html   and

https://thomasgardnerofsalem.blogspot.com/2023/03/old-and-new-planter.html

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I will be updating our FAQ and research list. It is great to have the split between this Thomas and the Thomas involved with the Dorchester effort on Cape Ann as we can separate focus more easily. Just like it is great to see a proper profile for this man. 

But, the question of whether or not the two profiles represent the same man is open for many reasons. This is a beginning. 

See this post for a few early questions

https://thomasgardnerofsalem.blogspot.com/2023/03/old-and-new-planter.html

... 

The benefit of Bob's work is that now we can pinpoint where to look in England analogous to what the 2020 planning allowed for the Mayflower passengers. Now, we can look more closely at Thomas and Margaret and their families. 

Such as, her brother Thomas?