Comments on Thomas Lee

+4 votes
478 views

Posting this here in accordance with WikiTree FAQ guidelines on how to make significant changes to a Project-Protected Profile.  Originally requested consideration for this change on 6 Feb with no feedback since.

On 16 Feb 2023 Ken Bashford wrote on Lee-7459:

[[Lee-42678|Thomas Lee (abt.1761-aft.1828)]] was a son of Thomas Lee-7459. - Ken

WikiTree profile: Thomas Lee
in Genealogy Help by Ken Bashford G2G4 (4.4k points)
edited by Ken Bashford

4 Answers

+3 votes
 
Best answer
Thank you for your patience Ken & for your excellent research on this profile.  I have attached Lee-7459 as his father.
by Scott McClain G2G6 Mach 3 (36.3k points)
selected by Porter Fann
Thank you.
Also, Scott, thank you for cleaning up and improving the Lee-42678 profile.  - Ken
+5 votes
Thank you Ken -- it's obvious from the comments on Lee-7459 that this is a controversial profile.  There were multiple men named Thomas Lee in Virginia in this period and some members believe Lee-7459 is conflating multiple men of the same name.  I am still just getting up to speed but I don't see a source cited in either profile which directly establishes that Lee-42678 was the son of Lee-7459.  Am I just missing it?  Or if the claim is based on an argument based on circumstantial evidence, it would be helpful if you could summarize that argument here for others to review and comment on.
by Scott McClain G2G6 Mach 3 (36.3k points)
It’s circumstantial. It’s in the Hawkins County, TN, land records. Track the Thomas Lees who made land deals from the 1790s to the 1830s. Until 1816 when 7459 dies, there’s a ‘Senior’ and ‘Junior’.  ‘Thomas senior’ gifted land to 3 ‘sons’ including 1 ‘Thomas junior’.  Then ‘Thomas junior’ (42678) bought ‘Killenworth’ in 1809.  ‘Thomas Lee’ sold part of a 1794 NC land grant to 42678’s father-in-law in 1806.  After 7459 died, no more Thomas Lee deals until 1834. In fact, there’s no record of ANY Thomas Lee acquiring land after 42678’s purchase from Jeremiah Killingsworth in 1809 … until Thomas J. Lee started making deals in 1834. The same Thomas J Lee in the 1850 census at age 40, born 1810?  The Thomas that 42678 named as a son in his LW&T in 1828?  (Who are these multiple Thomas Lees supposedly ‘conflated’ with 7459?)

One other thing. In the land records, you can see that virtually ALL of the Lees making and witnessing land deals during this period have first names that match the names in the 7459 profile. Needham, Micajah, John, Burrell, Edward, Robert, Kader, Samuel, Elizabeth, Mary, James, William.  Is this coincidence?  Or is it 7459’s family?  And if it’s family, who’s this interloper identified as ‘Thomas junior’ in several of these deals, including one with ‘Thomas senior’?
+5 votes

Thomas Lee who married Mary Bacon is shown as a son on the proposed father's DAR profile (which has several caveats).

by Porter Fann G2G6 Pilot (107k points)
Note that the same generation of Thomas Lee who married Mary or Molly Bryan also has an entry with GREENBERRY, ELIZABETH FEW.  

All of Thomas Lee "Sr"'s children are marked EL, error in lineage. Some have a notation of supporting documentation. Reproved descent is required.
I have not used DAR sourcing in making the case for this change.  In the Lee-42678 profile, it’s under ‘See Also’.
Also, in the many, many hours I’ve spent poring over the land and probate records for Hawkins, I never once came across the word ‘Greenberry’.
Thomas Greenberry Lee lived in Johnston, NC. I think his father is actually a different Thomas Lee, a line from the Ditchley Lees.
+3 votes

Updated link. Hopefully it will take you directly to the pamphlet, now. 

Johnston, Weldon; Lang, E Z; Lee, Robert T Jr; & Long, A D; compilers. "Some of the Descendants of Capt. Thomas Lee of Hawkins Co., Tennessee." Sep 1972, p. 9, says that Thomas Lee Jr (9 Dec 1761-19 Aug 1828) was the son of Mary (Bryan) and Capt. Thomas Lee.

Thought that I'd put this here (it's also in the comments on the father's profile).

by Porter Fann G2G6 Pilot (107k points)
edited by Porter Fann
This document is also referenced under 'See Also' on the Lee-42678 profile.
Well, there is a Thomas Jr child attached, but his dates and life do not match your Thomas Jr that SHOULD be attached. Your Thomas Jr is well described in the source cited.

Once you read through it, is reasonably well-sourced and is just the sort of citation that warrants attaching YOUR Thomas Lee Jr. (The other one should be documented as a false positive match on both affected profiles and be deatched.)

I'm waiting to hear from Loretta.
The ‘Greenberry’ issue is of no concern to me.

But I’ve yet to see a good reason for not attaching Lee-42678.
Lee-42678 has been attached, but the father's list of children hasn't been updated.
Pure speculation on my part, but …

I think the understandable hesitancy in attaching Lee-42678 derived in part from not knowing where to place him in the structure of the narrative biography.  Which wife of Capt Thomas was his mother? When and where was he born?  Was he even in fact born to a wife of Capt Thomas?  We don’t need to know these things to know 7459 & 42678 were father & son, but it’s natural to want Thomas Jr to fit neatly into the existing narrative, even if that narrative itself rests on shaky ground.  (Hence, I think, the urge to re-write the 7459 profile.)

We have 2 or 3 secondary sources putting 1761 as 42678’s birth year. They could be wrong. We have 7459 with a young first wife who dies in 1758.  If it’s true Mary Griffin was Capt Thomas’ first wife and she died in her 20s, maybe she died giving birth to Thomas Jr, or soon thereafter, vulnerable to disease in her weakened post-partum condition.  Not uncommon in the 1700s.

Or, going in the other direction, maybe Thomas Jr was born to Mary Ingram in the early 1770s.

From my perspective, the only constraint on Thomas Jr’s birth year is the fact that his first (known) child, James, was born in 1790/91.

But none of these uncertainties precludes us from knowing that 42678 was a son of 7459.  We have primary sources … legal documents … and Capt Thomas’ own words … that make this fact quite clear.  

— Ken

On 23 May 1823, Thomas Bailey filed a suit in Chancery Court of Hawkins County, Tennessee challenging the administration of Mary Lee's estate. Thomas Lee Jr isn't listed as a child of Thomas Lee's last wife. It looks like Thomas Jr was a son of a preceding wife. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ingram-1738#Chancery_Court_Litigation.

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