Unconnected profiles

Question

Hello everyone, just a point to put forward as I am unable to adjust pre 1500 profiles. Sir Griffith Vaughan (Vaughan-2119) is clearly the father of catherine Forden aka Vaughan (Forden-200) as there are documents to support this. Could anyone adjust this please?

Answer 1

What are the documents that support your statement?

Where are they?

Are they online?

Is there a link to them.

It would help us a lot if we dont need to go searching for them again.

Comments

Yes, please refer to:

 Hoby-29

Burke's EXTINCT & DORMANT BARONETCIES (1844), p. 265: "By the second [wife], Catherine, daughter and sole heir of John Forden, [William Hoby of Leominster] had three other sons, William, SIR THOMAS, and Richard. This William [Hoby] took Sir John Oldcastle, Lord Cobham, prisoner, and for that service had a grant from the crown of the lordship of Brangarth." In fact, Sir John Oldcastle, Lord Cobham, was captured (and executed) in 1417.

genuki.org.uk ("The Stratfords")

A COTTESWOLD SHRINE (1908) by Welbore St. Clair Baddley,, pp. 144, 150

Will of William Hoby (PCC Hayes 24); See TNA PROB 11/105/300

Hackness Manuscripts and Accounts, Yorkshire Archaeological Society Record Series vol. XCV, 1838, p.10

oxford-shakespeare.com

Forden-4

YAS Record Series Vol. 95: Hackness manuscripts and accounts (1599-1724)
https://archive.org/details/YASRS095/page/10/mode/2up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruffudd_Vychan

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For profiles like this that are too old to edit yourself, if you put the sources in a comment on the profile then it's very easy for people who can edit the profile to find the relevant sources (and put them in the profile for you).

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Andrew which one of these sources tells us that Griffith had a daughter named Catherine Forden?

Answer 2

What happened to Catherine Forden-200?  WikiTree indicates that the profile has been deleted.

Is Catherine Vaughn-200 the daughter that you want connected?

Comments

Hi she is Vaughan-200

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Hi, Catherine (Vaughan) Forden is listed as Vaughan-200 created 31 Mar 2011, she is the daughter to Sir Griffith Vaughan.

Answer 3

Sir Griffith's death in 1447 is about 50 years too early to make him the father of Catherine Vaughan-200. Looking at the dates given for husband and children and their children, we probably need another generation or maybe even two. She definitely is the daughter of "a" Griffith/Griffin Vaughan but probably not this particular one.

Comments

Is it possible that a profile could be populated for this Griffith with circa dates for birth etc? If any clues come up then there is a profile to add the information? I do not have pre 1500 access to do this, it would need to be added to Vaughan-200 as her father.

Many thanks

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I have gone through some research and have discovered that Elizabeth Hoby's father William Hobby (Hoby-29) was born 1499 as his burial 17th March 1602 at Didbrook, aged 103. This pushes the generations back which would then line up with Sir Griffith Vaughan died 1477.

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I've taken a look at the parish register image and it does say the William Hoby the elder was 103 and was buried on the 17th Mar 1602. Interestingly, his son, William Hoby the younger was buried only a day or so later.

But that still doesn't address the discrepancy between Griffith Vaughan's death in 1447 (not 1477) and the birth of Catherine which is currently set at 1490.

Answer 4

Andrew, the Hoby-Sydenham pedigree is not quite right for the William Hobys of Hailes. It is incorrect in saying that William Hoby died 1623 was married to Mary Tracy. Mary Tracy, later Vere, was his mother and he died dsp. His will makes that very clear. The dates for William married Mary Tracy should be died 1602/3 (he's William the younger) and then his father is William the elder, also died March 1602/3.

Comments

Hi Elizabeth, yes the wiki pedigree has clearly been laid out incorrectly for the Hoby line, however I am not able to work on the pre 1500s to correct this. William born circa 1480 now shows that if we go by a generation every 25 years then Catherine Forden (Vaughan) being the daughter to a Sir Griffith Vaughan is certainly the Vaughan that died 1447.

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I've worked all day on the William Hobys and feel as though I have them all sorted out with their correct wives and generations. I have been able to push back the potential birthdate for Catherine Vaughan to about 1470 - based on her daughter Catherine Forden dying in 1574 aged 86 with a birth date 1488. Can you explain the steps you are using to get her birth date back to before 1447, based on the line backwards from William Hoby The birth and death dates for William, as well as the birth and death date for his mother Catherine Forden are pretty solidly sourced now. 

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Have just found this on the heirs of Griffith Vaughan from https://archive.org/details/pedigreesofmonto00dunn/page/16/mode/2up?q=vaughan :

Sir Gruffydd Vychan had issue David, Reynold, and Cadwaladr ; Catherine, wife of Edward Bewpy ; Gwenhwyvar, wife of Gruffydd ap Aaron ap Ednyved ; Anne, wife of Ieuan Vychan of Penllyn ; and Margaret, wife of Morys Ludlow, and afterwards married to an English Knight.

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Hi Elizabeth, I've based my findings on the possibility that Catherine Vaughan could've been in her 40s when she gave birth to her daughter in 1488.

If Catherine V was 45 when she gave birth then this puts her birth to 1443, and within the time frame of Sir Griffith Vaughan that was beheaded in 1447 at the age of 50. This would also make Griffith in his mid 40s when he had Catherine.