G2G: How Many of You Know You Married Your Cousin? Or Admit to It?

+18 votes
2.0k views
Well, it's official, today I discovered I married my cousin!  Turns out we share the same grandmother back in the 1400's.  Katherine Rilay had two sons. My wife descends through one, and I through the other!

So fess up!  How many here have discovered this to be true!

Side note:  I was looking at my Notables connections, and saw I was related to Jennifer Aniston.  She is my cousin!  Then I saw Brad Pitt is my cousin.  Hmmmmm?  cant be true?  BUT IT IS!   They are kissing cousins!
WikiTree profile: David Draper
in The Tree House by David Draper G2G Astronaut (5.1m points)
retagged by Ellen Smith

Answer to your question is no, but it reminded me of this song written by Dwight Latham and Moe Jaffe in 1947 called "I am My Own Grandpa"! laugh

https://gean.wwco.com/grandpa/


My parents show up as cousins, my husband and I are cousins, too. All are many generations back.

It seems it would be more unusual to find no cousin relationship if you have traced far enough back (and have European ancestry). WikiTree gives us so much opportunity to identify those connections/relaltionships. When I find a cousin I always look below the big list and see "Kristina and X have" 237 other ancestors in common.

Oh my! I seem to have married my 22nd cousin once removed! And, even worse, we have 36 common ancestors. The closest is in the 13th century and the oldest is about 4 centuries prior.

We theoretically share something like 1 x 10-5% of our DNA.

However, with several of the connections on both sides being uncertain, the likely hood of this being correct is certainly diminished.


To those that have replied to this post, you  are all related to me! 

Your 25th cousin twice removed  /  Lorraine

Your 21st cousin twice removed / Kristina

Your 23rd cousin twice removed / George

Your 23rd cousin / Edison

Your 25th cousin / Robynne

Your 18th cousin 8 times removed / Liza


Oh, pick me! Pick me!

David and Steven are very distant cousins.

But still no connection to my wife yet!


I'm not married, but when I told my mother that she appears to be my 9th cousin once removed, she practically fell apart.

Daphne Maddox is my 23rd cousin twice removed so Dave Draper is related to her mom also!devil


How does "Your very distant cousin" work out?  I'm still confused on that one!sad


I found out last year I married my 6 th cousin . I hollered oh my incest in my family. I thought it was hilarious. My son wasn’t Twp pleased when I told him he had a new cousin  in the family.  I told hubby of 50 years it was too late to change it noe .

You are my 17th cousin twice removed!  (Dave Draper(laugh


David, the truth is, that is the first time I saw a message like that. We have a connection, but it so long and so many steps between, I think the system stopped trying to figure it out :)

13 Answers

+16 votes
 
Best answer

Truth is, everyone alive today either married a cousin or descended from a cousin marriage...if you look far enough into the past. It's just the way that history unfolded.

A non-jargony and brief 2017 article by Dr. Graham Coop, population and evolutionary geneticist at U.C. Davis, provides a good overview: https://gcbias.org/2017/11/20/our-vast-shared-family-tree/.

Our genealogical family trees and our genetic family trees are two distinct things, with some overlap. Throw in the term "genetic similarity"--imagine part of that as being the way the DNA testing companies can even attempt to offer "ethnicity estimates"--and you have a Venn diagram with three circles, portions of which intersect and big portions that do not. Our genetic family tree is much, much smaller than our genealogical family tree.

We might be able to, for example, if we're of European descent be able to draw our pedigree chart--with distinct mothers and fathers--all the way back to Charlemagne in 747 AD, call it about 46 generations ago. At 46 generations, that pedigree chart would show me as having an incredible total of over 70 trillion ancestors (2k where k is the number of generations). We can't know the numbers for certain, but speculation is that at the time of Charlemagne the total population of Europe was between 25 and 30 million, of which about half was within Charlemagne's Carolingian Empire. The entire global population was somewhere around 220 million. So my pedigree chart would show over 318 thousand times more more ancestors at that time than was the number of all humans alive. Nope.

Our genetic family trees collapse much, much more quickly than most of us realize. Looking at Coop's nifty illustration in his article, and if we assume no known cousin marriages at all in recent generations, by the 9th generation these unrelated individuals start to share common ancestors, five of them, in fact. By the 10th generation, they share 18 ancestors. By the 11th generation, they share 61 ancestors; by the 12th generation, 261; by the 13th, 1,025, and many of those appear more than once in the genealogy.

In an interesting coincidence, I just exchanged email with another WikiTreer who noted that we were distant cousins. I hopped over to the relationship finder and, sure enough, it showed our closest relationship as 15th cousins 1x removed. But it also showed that the tree had us as sharing 206 common ancestors. Given that genealogies get very iffy back beyond the 16th century or thereabouts, that's pretty much in keeping with Coop's numbers.

I need to set aside time today or tomorrow to finish a brief article about new research published a few days ago that rewrites some of what we thought we knew about the repopulation of Europe following the last major ice age. The previously prevailing hypothesis was that hunter-gatherers who had migrated into Eurasia from the Near East circa 33,000 YBP, collectively known as the Gravettian culture, mostly vanished in the Last Glacial Maximum, wiped out as massive ice sheets began descending upon Europe around 25,000 YBP from the north, destroying their food sources from plants and game populations. The new discoveries via DNA show that the Gravettians in the area of southern France and the Iberian peninsula survived, that many Europeans carry those genetic signatures today. But the Gravettians farther east, specifically in Italy, did not, and were replaced by a different and genetically distinct hunter-gatherer population from the Balkan peninsula after the ice sheets retracted and allowed humans to begin repopulating Europe circa 17,000 YBP (Posth, et al., Nature, March 2023; Villalba-Mouco, et al., Nature Ecology & Evolution, March 2023).

Point being that our entire history has seen periods of both population contraction and expansion, of bottlenecks that constricted the available number of procreating humans and of times that climate and available resources allowed population booms. And every one of those bottlenecks--whether from disaster, geographic isolation, migrations by relatively small groups, or even endogamy as a social practice--meant that the genetic family trees collapsed during those periods. But as a species we've always recovered...to the point that we now have a staggering global population of about 8.02 billion. But even that's a drop in the bucket compared to the 70 trillion ancestors I would have had--on a tidy, org-chart-like family tree--during the reign of Charlemagne.

Without a whole lot of cousin marriages, we'd never have gotten here from there! laugh

by Edison Williams G2G6 Pilot (514k points)
selected by Jonathan Crawford

To provide perspective, for what it is worth, WikiTree shows I presently (this seems to change frequently) have over 21,000 lines of descent from Charlemagne. The shortest one being 33 generations.

Cousin George! smiley

Thanks for the best answer star, Jonathan. I know I took an unnecessary dive back to the last ice age, but in 2014-2015 next-generation sequencing began a veritable explosion in ancient DNA research, and developments with accurate long-read sequencing have kept the train running. New evidence from ancient DNA keeps coming in, almost monthly, and I find it fascinating.


In my mother’s family there was always the story that we are related to Gregor Mendel, but no one knew how. Then the church registers came on line at the Czech Regional Archives in Opava, and with the help of a researcher I met, was finally able to prove that the story is indeed true.

With such a relative you would think my understanding of DNA would be better, but unfortunately, I did not get the “understanding DNA” gene.frown


I mentioned as an aside in my answer that I intended to devote a little time to writing a brief article about some new research affecting what we'd previously thought regarding the repopulation of Europe following the last major ice age.

I finished it almost a week ago, but didn't think to come back here and provide a link. So just in case anyone needs some help falling asleep tonight:

https://countingchromosomes.com/blog/95-new-research-alters-our-view-of-early-european-populations


+9 votes
I just checked. My spouse and I are 20th cousins 3 times removed - and I think I am OK with that!!!
by Robynne Lozier G2G Astronaut (1.4m points)

+8 votes
Since my ex-husband was French Canadian and both of my parents were 1/2 French Canadian, I knew that we were more than likely related. My dad is related to his mom and my mom to his dad. So my MIL is my 7th cousin 2x removed, etc.
by Liza Gervais G2G6 Pilot (561k points)

My ex and I have 146 common ancestors according to Relationship Finder.

+8 votes
I fully expected to find that my parents were related, given the way Ashkenazi families are the go-to example any time endogamy is mentioned.  As a result, I was very surprised when FTDNA said my parents are not related (they identify me as 93% Ashkenazi).  It does seem to me that there is a lot of hocus pocus in how they come to that conclusion - they claim to do it by some sort of comparison that involves splitting my DNA into father and mother components.
by Gaile Connolly G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)

(Waves at Gaile!) Gaile knows me, so she forgives me when I pull my DNA soapbox out from under the desk so I can stand on it for a moment. Ahem.

That "Are Your Parents Related" utility at FTDNA relies on a fairly simple algorithm created by David Pike, a professor of mathematics in Newfoundland. What it checks for are called runs of homozygosity (ROH). These are continuous areas on a chromosome where, unbroken, the SNP alleles (DNA "letters") of a tested individual are exactly the same on one of the individual chromosomes in the pair as on the other chromosome.

In other words, the raw data from our common DNA tests reports two DNA letters at each position tested. We can't know from the raw data alone which allele comes from which parent, but what it can tell us is if the alleles reported are the same on each chromosome. As an example, here's the start of my Chromosome 1 per an AncestryDNA v2 test:

rsid chromosome position allele1 allele2
rs369202065 1 569388 G G
rs199476136 1 569400 T T
rs190214723 1 693625 T T
rs3131972 1 752721 G G
rs12562034 1 768448 A G
rs115093905 1 787173 T G


We only have four nucleic acid bases to work with, and they always pair up with a specific, complementary base: the purines are adenine and guanine; the pyrimidines are cytosine and thymine. So statistically we all end up with millions of short segments where the allele values are the same on both chromosomes.

But if the run of identical values is lengthy, then it can carry meaning about the parents' biological relationship. GEDmatch doesn't let us set granular values for thresholds, but David Pike's tool uses a minimum of 200 continuous, identical SNPs. Given that our typical test density looks at about 1 marker in every 4,200, that equates to a stretch of chromosome very roughly 1 million base pairs long. Most people will have around 200 or so short ROHs of that length or a bit longer. A bunch of small clusterings of that size doesn't mean anything, genealogically speaking.

The effects of pedigree collapse, if it isn't very recent, dilutes pretty quickly, and the reliable lengths of ROH segments for genealogy are much longer than that minimum. For children of 1st cousins, somewhere around 10% or 12% of the test results will show as being ROHs. Generally, studies focusing on relatedness and ROH consider marriages between 1st cousins and 2nd cousins only because the normal effects of recombination winnow out reliably measurable effects by that point; children of 3rd cousins don't display ROHs adequately distinguishable from children of otherwise unrelated (or more distantly related) parents (Kirin, et al., PLOS ONE, 2010).

To extrapolate that for extended pedigree collapse would take some computational biology I'm not capable of. It wouldn't be as straightforward as determining the theoretical average amounts of DNA the children share. But the ROHs certainly wouldn't decrease less rapidly than the amounts of shared DNA overall, and seemingly should decrease more rapidly. Meaning that multiple instances of pedigree collapse might be detectable as ROHs back to 3g- or 4g-grandparents, but I doubt it would be indicated farther than that; 'course we're talking the last instance of pedigree collapse and are assuming no meaningful collapse after that.

And for anyone still sweatin' a bit after discovering that they're a distant cousin to their spouse, consider that 5th cousins are, on average, expected to share only 0.049% of their autosomal DNA. And there's less than a 50% chance from either parent that any of it is going to be passed down to any given child. They could have a litter of kids and not one of them inherit any of that DNA. At 6th cousins, that 0.049% drops down to 0.0122%.

From a health standpoint, that's why we have one chromosome in each pair. Protein coding genes are either dominant or recessive (mostly), and if you have one dominant and one recessive, the dominant is the one that's expressed (e.g., like hair color; red is recessive and for a child to have red hair, both parents have to contribute a recessive set of red-hair genes). Most genetic disorders that don't occur structurally are recessive; that's why we don't see them occur more frequently in admixed populations. Structural problems are mechanical--things that go wrong with the physical chromosomes themselves during replication--and result in things like an extra chromosome (technical term aneuploidy, or trisomy), or missing parts of chromosomes as with Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome and Cri du Chat syndrome.


+8 votes
I believe that you will find more "cousin-marriages" than "non-cousin marriages".  For instance, in areas where the marrigible population were rather small you will find "closer cousins", and also in the 17 and 18 hundreds it wasn't too uncommon to marry second cousins.  Even "uncle-niece" marriages weren't too uncommon before the 1700s.
by Living McPherson G2G6 Mach 1 (16.2k points)

Dave Draper's 23rd cousin once removed


In some of my cousin branches, first cousin marriages are very common. I even have a few "uncle-niece" marriages in modern times.

+5 votes
There is no common ancestor reflected for my wife and me.
by Roger Stong G2G Astronaut (1.9m points)

+6 votes
DNA has matched me with my ex-husband’s sisters. I have not been able to find the exact location of the match. They are 95% Italian  I’m only 12%  

My parents were 8th cousins which is curious because my paternal side is from the northeast and my maternal side from the southeast. Ah, but one run away daughter from the North married a family member of my southern family in North Carolina.
by Susan Ellen Smith G2G6 Mach 9 (94.5k points)

Dave Draper's 23rd cousin twice removed


+6 votes
Currently engaged to a 7th cousin 1x removed. Some of my family have married much closer. My parents are very distant cousins to each other.
by Aaron Gullison G2G6 Pilot (215k points)

+6 votes
I was surprised to discover that my parents were 9th cousins. My mother was very sure that there was no overlap between her Pennsylvania German and Hudson Valley "Dutch" ancestry and my father's New England Yankee ancestry, but a few New England Yankees sneaked into her Hudson Valley lineage -- and one or two of those people share New England Yankee ancestors with my father.

I assume that my husband and I are distant cousins, most likely due to a connection somewhere in long-ago England, pr possibly in western Germany, but any relationship between my ancestral lines through immigrants to colonial America and his much more recent immigrant lines is lost in the mists of history.
by Ellen Smith G2G Astronaut (1.7m points)

+5 votes
Honestly, I believe that there are 2nd cousins once to 23 removed in my family.

It wouldn't surprise me.
by Eileen Robinson G2G6 Pilot (247k points)

+7 votes
I haven't found any connection yet between my husband and myself.  His ancestry is mostly Eastern European & Italian and his family didn't immigrate to the US until the early 20th century. Mine in English and Scandinavian, with the English being in the US since the early colonial days, so our lines haven't had much opportunity to cross.   

However, I am my own 18th cousin --  I am adopted, and I've had a long-time goal of finding where my birth family's lines and my adoptive family's lines cross.  I finally did, and that's how I am related to myself through both lines.
by Roxanna Malone G2G6 Mach 3 (34.8k points)

+3 votes
Me both my baby daddys are my cousin's guess just carrying on the New Mexico tradition haha
by Amanda Phillips G2G Crew (480 points)

+3 votes
My wife is my 12th cousin, just found that out recently (several months ago).
by Chris Strickland G2G6 Mach 1 (10.3k points)

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