Pre-1500 Certification

Question

One of the requirements is 2 or more postings in G2G. Does this refer to postings involving questions asked or answered? Neither appears in my list of fulfilled requirements though I have now done both.

Comments

While I don't believe that is further defined, one could assume this means a Question or an Answer but perhaps not simply a Comment/Reply.

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As Todd says, there is no further definition.

As regards what assists decision-making on applications for the pre-1500 badge, it may be helpful to remember what the application process is about. It is about enabling decisions to be made about whether someone is showing the skills required for medieval profiles, where genealogical research is often much more difficult than for later profiles, and where discussion with others may be helpful; and whether they are familiar with WikiTree standards.

A comment which just says ”thank you" or "good point" would not count for much in the evaluation. At the other extreme, a contribution which gives advanced genealogical help may give valuable evidence, whether that contribution is in a comment or an answer to a question.

There is space on the application for people to draw attention to anything which may help to demonstrate their expertise, and that can include participation in a G2G discussion on a difficult genealogical conundrum.

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@Michael

@Elizabeth

Hi Michael and Elizabeth, your responses and comments are very clear and welcome to me. I was pre-1500 certified last fall (2022) after being on WikiTree since 2018 and creating some 40K profiles.

I fully agree that pre-1500 requires a more demanding and judicious approach to doing profiles than post-1500 profiles, particularly accessing 'reliable' sources, and collaboration is a key element. I am on Discord with the England Team more frequently when I am working on pre-1500 profiles now as I do not want to perpetuate myths.

Personally, I found the pre-1500 form comprehensive and well-thought-out. When I re-applied last year, I selected two profiles that I had gone to great lengths to write, corrected mis-information, and obtained proper sources. I also provided 'evidence' for one of the profiles to become a part of the PGM. I gave clear examples of contributions that I made to G2G (not just 'good point' as Michael mentioned). For example, I submitted (and still do) NEHGS webinars relevant to WikiTree members that are Free along with dates, times and topics. In the application, I also pointed out collaborations not only on the profiles I included for review, but activities on Discord, Thons in which I have participated, work that I have done with Data Doctors, Sourcers, PGM, the England Team (including Orphan Trail).

To be honest, I thought I was ready to get pre-1500 certification about a year after I joined WikiTree in 2018. And I had been doing genealogy for some 40 years (using pen, stamps and mail to obtain sources). I had already completed the Orphan Trail, was working with PGM, PGM and Beyond and other teams, but was kindly denied pre-1500 for several reasons. Since 2019, I took Boston University's genealogy online course, a seminar on genetic genealogy with Blaine Bettinger, a semester-long course on genetic genealogy with our local genealogical society, and online courses for writing genealogical proofs and seeking and proper writing of genealogical sources. I learned a great deal as to what I thought I knew, but didn't. I now use all of this learning as I write profiles be they 1900, 1800 or earlier. I also recognized that the pre-1500 team at that time was very correct in their assessment of my readiness for pre-1500 profiles.

I was very honored to receive pre-1500 certification after submitting all that is described on the pre-1500 site. I also included names of WikiTree colleagues who assisted me with seeking sources (and acknowledging them) on the profiles that I submitted for review. I am just now 'dipping my toes' into working on pre-1500 profiles and have already called on England Team colleagues for assistance, particularly with sourcing. The one profile I am completing now has been a 'hodgepodge' of inaccuracies and I have worked on this one profile almost daily since the beginning of March hunting down proper sources, weeding out incorrect children and adding myriad 'Research Notes.' Once done, I will be asking likely Nic Donnelly and Michael Cayley to review the profile for clarity, redundancy and proper sourcing. Truly, working on pre-1500 profiles is a whole different 'kettle of fish' and much more demanding. The rigor, however, is necessary to avoid 'mythology' and to maintain WikiTree standards.

Answer 1

I think there is a problem with the form for the Pre-1500 Certification Request.

https://www.wikitree.com/contact/cert/

Most of the items in the list of primary requirements are autochecked - it tells me when my account was confirmed, that I signed the Honor Code, how many non-GEDCOM contributions I have made and that I am pre-1700 self-certified. But my G2G postings aren't checked and my project participation isn't either, although I certainy fulfil both those criteria as well.

Perhaps a little glitch in the coding?

Comments

It is up to applicants to check their G2G participation if they are not sure: and also to identify their Project participation, which needs to be active, not just passive, and refer to it on the application Form.

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This does not seem to have been obvious to the person who asked the question. Checking his G2G profile he has asked many questions, although most of them back in 2016.

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How is an applicant to know of this meta-requirement if it is not stated explicitly?

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I am afraid I do not understand why you think there are any "meta-requirements". There are explicit statements of what is asked for.

The page containing the form itself refers to the requirement to have made postings in G2G. Members are not asked to list G2G posts. (Some applicants have made tens of thousands of G2G contributions.) Those who consider applications for the pre-1500 badge can review the G2G participation.

On Project participation, the form asks the member to name a Project in which they currently participate The guidance on pre-1500 profiles, which is at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Pre-1500_Profiles  and which includes the link to the form, states "As part of the certification process you will be asked to identify a pre-1700 or Project Protected Profile where you have made significant contributions as a practical demonstration of your knowledge of sources and WikiTree style. You will also be asked to provide information on your Pre-1700 project participation and the name of a Project Leader who can confirm your participation as an advanced wiki genealogist.”

We ask members to name just one Project, though applicants sometimes name more than one. Many WikiTree members belong to a number of Projects, with varying degrees of participation. Not all Projects are pre-1700, and some are functional, not primarily focused on profiles. And not all WikiTree members are active in Projects they belong to.

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Hello Michael,

Please see your first reply re checking being up to the possible applicants for pre-1500 accreditation for what is a a meta-requirement. By this term my comment was indicating that this requirement was not explicit and thus amounted til explained by you to a hidden bit of Wiki lore or as I termed it, a meta-requirement. Surely this goes against the design intent of seeking always to be clear so as to avoid the unnecessary proliferation of questions, misapprehensions, or even problems arising from such instructional opacity. Regards, Upton.

Answer 2

The g2g and project participation requirements are also to give an indication of how a member collaborates. Pre-1500 genealogy is often extremely complex and many people share these ancestors, reliable sources can be difficult to access and mythology abounds! Collaboration is an important element of the Wikitree ethos. Members with pre-1500 badges will often work together, and with others, to add and improve early profiles.