Is Michael Fickley really Jean Michael Voegtling???

Question

I'm having a problem with  Michael Fickley  my 3rd great-grandfather

The problem is, is Michael Fickley really Jean Michael Voegtling?. Ancestry, Geneanet, and Familysearch all have him listed as such..

Geneanet: https://gw.geneanet.org/lowell47?n=voegtling&oc=&p=jean+michael

Familysearch: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/K8T6-GVN

Multiple Ancestry Family Histories and Familysearch all seem to be based on the Geneanet Profile listed above.

When I look at his Geneanet Profile I get a bit flustered. His father's Geneanet Profile, Jean Georges Voegtling, seems a bit off. It appears he was born the same year as his father which leaves me believing this may be a conflated Profile for Michael and father.

Did a search on Jean Georges Voegtling on Geneanet, https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?go=1&nom=Voegtling&page=3&prenom=Jean+Michael+&prenom_operateur=or&size=100&with_variantes_nom=&with_variantes_nom_conjoint=&with_variantes_prenom=&with_variantes_prenom_conjoint= , and got totally lost. I'm good on Ancestry and Familysearch in divining different records and correlating them with my research. But Geneanet is new, just joined today, and every site has its own peculiarities. I'm hoping someone more familiar with Geneanet, and with a Premium Subscription I might add, could help with this problem.

Any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. I m currently updating my Fickley Family on WikiTree and will probably not get to Michael's Profile for a week or two so no rush on this.

One other thing, I have come across many anglicized names on records in the United States and am unsure how Voeghtling becomes Fickely. My command of languages beyond English is severely lacking. Possibly I'm pronouncing it wrong.

Thanks in advance,

LJ

Comments

I am a garden of useless information and only speak English.

A good friend of mine was called Eva, with the v sounding like an English v.  Her sister came to visit from Austria, she call my friend Efa. Definite F sound.

If you substitute an F for the V and make ʻlingʻ into ʻleyʻ you can get to Fickley. If an immigration agent wrote what he heard and did not ask, maybe?

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Yep, that's why I asked Kristina.  Last Deutsche lesson was about 50 years ago and I remember I had a hard time with pronunciation as I was too set in my English speaking ways.  LOL

Thanks.

Answer 1

Pronunciation is "Focked-ling" with an umlaut "o" or something like that. Would that be transcribed to "Fickley" by an English speaker? Possibly.

The Geneanet tree is not without errors. Michael Fickel b. 1709 and Michael Fickle b. 1815 brothers? Michael Fickle and Jean Michael Voegtling born on the same day, but at different locations? And "Wudweiler" is unknown to my online map of choice.

In case "Weiterswiller" as birthplace should be correct, you can find church registers here - in French. Click RECHERCHER, then on CONSULTER below "Registres paroissiaux et d'état civil (XVIe s.-1912)", enter "Weiterswiller" into the search box, and click RECHERCHER again. Scroll to the right to "Tables décennales 1813-1822" (index) or "Registre de naissances 1815" (birth records) and click the book to open the viewer. I was able to find Voegtling but none of them born on Sep 8, 1815?

Have you tried to approach this from the destination side? What does the immigration record say?

J

Comments

Thanks so much,  It is the destination side that has had me questioning this match.

At no time does Jean or any variation appear in his records.  It is always Michael Fickley.  Found a record for a Michael Fickley arriving in Allegheny County Pennsylvania in 1844. Allegheny County, Pittsburgh to be exact is where he lived and died.  No information on where he arrived from. This date is consistent with others I have researched who came from Alsace Lorraine  to Western Pennsylvania in the 1840's and 50's.

There were the normal misspellings on some records, Fiekly, Figley, but not unusual for this type of error.  Some records for the family do have Fickling.  His son's military records are written as Fickling, but everything else is Fickley.

I have a better photo of his grave marker and DoB is inscribed 8 Sep 1815.   His 1860 and 1880 Census list birthplace as France and his 1887 Death Record list this as Germany. This difference in birthplace has always led to the person having come from Alsace Lorraine region in the areas annexed by Germany after the Franco Prussian War.  Usually Bas Rhin.

It is the inconsistencies in the Geneanet Profile that has always made me a bit frightened, But the possibility the name could have been anglicized as Fickling/Fickley brings me back.  Just insufficient proof for me to say he is a Voeghtling, let alone that Jean Michel Voeghtling specifically.

I will run through the link you so graciously provided to see what I can find.  Though my French is worse than my German.  LOL

Many thanks J

Answer 2

Jean Michel Voegtling was born on 9 Sep 1815 in Uttwiller, son of Jean George Voegtling and Catherine Beck.

Of course the birth record does not answer your question whether this is the same person as Michael Fickley.

Comments

It does not answer my question unequivocally Julien, but gives me sufficient evidence to to state that I believe they could be the same person.  I just wanted an actual written record I could see on the existence of Jean Michel Voegtling and you have delivered it to me.

I will not change his name to Jean Michel Voegtling on WikiTree, but will include the possibility of the connection in Research Notes.on the profile.

Many thanks.

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Excellent, "missing link" upgraded by at least one level. More if the birth date hadn't been off by 1 day. Hard to imagine them celebrating on the wrong day throughout his life?

Julien, what was the father's profession (I read "marchal ferrand")?

The signatures of father and witnesses are also interesting. While the registrar (actually the mayor I think) uses French names, they sign with their German names.

J

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J, a maréchal-ferrant was a farrier,  someone who shoes horse, a blacksmith.  And that my friend is the kicker in this mystery.  Michael was by trade a blacksmith in America.  More evidence leaning towards his being Jean Michel Voeghtling. Thanks for pointing that out as I had not had the time to translate the record.  Well, as good as Google translate works.  LOL

As to the dates of birth being different, If I had a dollar for every time I have come across a discrepancy in a birth date bring off by a few days, well, I'd wouldn't be rich, but modestly well off.  Just in the past week I have run across where the birth dates for a person was different on two or three official records three times.  Marriage or birth record has one date, Draft card another and death certificate another for three separate persons.  It's the draft cards and Marriage records that get me as the person would have been present when it was filled out and signed by them. Birth and death records are filled out without the person being present and so they have no say on that record. This leads me to the belief that a person's birth date was not real important to most folks as it is now. Close was good enough.

From readings, the concept of the importance of the birth date for most people in Europe and the Americas was did not come about until water and sewage treatment became prevalent in society   Improvement of sanitary conditions decreased the mortality rate, especially among children.  And today it is an important part of your identification.  Basically, the higher up you were in society the more important the knowledge of a birth date grew.

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A hint that they are the same person: at the 1880 census Michael Fickley is said to be a blacksmith, while Jean Michel Voegtling's father is maréchal-ferrant, which means farrier.

To be sure, one should check Michael Fickley's marriage record, which was celebrated (according to the Geneanet tree mentioned above) on 16 Sep 1841 in Pittsburgh's Voegtly Church. Records are not online but available on microfilm.

Did you notice the name of the church? It refers to its founder, Nicolaus Voegtly from Basel. This is a strange coincidence. So maybe Michael Fickley is related to the Voegtlys from Basel rather than the Voegtlings from Uttwiller.

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I need to get to the Heinz History Center and the Carnegie Museum in Pittsburgh where many of these records are held.  As I noted to J. in a separate correspondence on Michael's wife's Profile, I have not spent as much time on some records.  This is more so on those not available online.  I have a physical handicap and visiting these archives can be problematic for me.  I have been focused on those records I can find online, mostly those born in America where such records are plentiful for the most part.  At this point in time, I do not see myself researching fully those ancestors from before the early 1800's until next year.  I am updating or adding more than a few thousand Profiles on WikiTree at the present time.

I asked the question on Michael Fickley as it has bothered me for some time regarding Voegtling/Fickley as I am presently updating and adding his descendants to WikiTree.  Thanks to all for the help on him so I can properly update his and wife Anna's Profiles this week.

@Julien  Hmmm, Voghtly from Basel.  Another conundrum to ponder.  Basel is just down the river from Bas Rhin.  Could the difference in spelling be a colloquial variation?

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Julien I need a little help here.  Try as I might, I could not find the reference to his marriage on his Geneanet Page I supplied.  Am I looking at the wrong page or am I just missing it?

Now the record I found for his arrival in Allegheny County pertains to Naturalization records, again at Heinz or Carnegie Museum.  Need to find those.

Somewhere I have images of the records from the German Evangelical Protestant Church, which is what the Voegtly Evangelical Church was known as before 1935.  But if I remember correctly these records only encompassed the years from about 1870 to 1900.  My Cousin husband's family belonged to this church. Heinz History Center: Guide to Records of Voegtly Evangelical Church, 1833-1986

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The Rhine flows to the north, so Basel is upstream. Some 160 km south of Uttwiller.

The difference in spelling could be a colloquial variation, the names have the same origin and mean "little judge". However the two families are not closely related: Jean Michel Voegtling can be traced to Michel Voegtling/Vögtling, whose son is baptized on 18 Nov 1662 in Weiterswiller, while Nicolaus Voegtly can be traced to Johannes Simon Vögtlin, whose first daughter is baptized on 26 Sep 1647 in Pratteln near Basel. So, even if there is a connection before that, it seems unlikely that the 19th century descendants knew each other.

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Wow Julien, you are good.  More for me to add to my history.  Many thanks again.

What I meant by down the river was that they were both on the main highway for transportation at the time, not actual direction.  Mea culpa.

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This one is fun, even breathtaking.

LJ, a search for Michael Fickley on Geneanet.org returns 5 entries. Go to any of the 2 that have him born in 1815 and married to Anna Margarethe Pardonner (both by the same user, two different aliases). Voilà, there is your wedding date!

J

PS: Fully agree with you that birthdays are a modern invention.

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Cool Will do.

And I was wrong, the images I have are for the Erste deutshe Baptisten-Gemeinde in Pittsburgh.  Oh well....