G2G: How about adding a Block Sticker choice for “Direct Descendant” as opposed to just the one for “Descendant”.

Question

How about adding a Block Sticker choice for “Direct Descendant” as opposed to just the one for “Descendant”.

Answer 1

Do they not mean the same thing? "Direct" is just an extra word people add.

Comments

I'm always a bit confused, when people use "direct descendant" or "direct ancestor" - as if there were non-direct descendants or ancestors?

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There are lineal and collateral ancestors - collateral would be an uncle or aunt.

an aside: when I first joined WikiTree, I said that I was a direct descendant of someone with a different surname & was told that a "direct" descendant would have the same surname as the ancestor and that I was a "lineal" descendant of that person (meaning s/he was my nth-great-grandmother/father).

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No, ancestors are always lineal. An uncle is not an ancestor, but a collateral relative.

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Thanks! Continuing education :D

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I am one who has been guilty of using the term "direct descendant".  And I likely will do so again in the future.
I think one reason for it is to emphasise the lineal descent, rather than it being a collateral relationship (because non-family historians seem to have difficulty with direct lines and collateral ones - and even some who have worked on family trees have trouble with understanding a collateral relationship).

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Seems to me descendant has direct lineal connection, not collateral.  I descend from all my ancestors, but not from their siblings / in-laws  etc (of course some siblings show up as ancestors in my tree, but that's due to pedigree implosion).

There is no such thing as ''indirect descendant'' that I know of.  So ''direct descendant'' seems redundant.

Answer 2

The terms "direct descendant" or "direct ancestor" originally meant following only male or agnatic lines, and I suppose that they still do. They come from a time when biological inheritance was poorly understood, and the egg cell was totally unknown. The common opinion was that the man simply planted his seed (the "homunculus") in the woman's womb.

These days, with our more sophisticated biological knowledge, as well as our view on equality between the sexes, "direct" or agnatic genealogy makes little sense.

Comments

Agreed. To me direct descendent implies in the paternal line only.

But descent from the maternal line is still a descendent.

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Then we should maybe use "patrilineal descent"... like "I am a patrilineal descendant of Ronald MacDonald".

I find it so weird when people say "I am the direct descendant of so and so".

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Patrilineal descendant is the male line. Matrilineal is the female line.

Patrilineal came into general use beginning around 1900, per Google ngram search https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=patrilineal&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3

As to there being, prior to that, or at any other time, a phrase "direct descendant" that was to mean the patrilineal line, as offerred above, I cannot find any attestation for it.

Wiktionary just says direct descendant is a synonym for descendant.

LeIf or Robynne, could you share anything about where and when you think the origin of this other meaning can be found?
 

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I think its just my opinion. So I will remove that from my mindset now. Thank you for the correction.

Answer 3

Language can be such a nightmare at times as folks often do not agree on the meanings of words although generally assuming that an audience attaches the same meaning as the speaker/writer.  

In this case, one can see a meaning in addition to those already mentioned here: https://grammarhow.com/direct-descendant-vs-indirect-descendant/

So cousins are 'indirect descendants' of some common ancestors.

Personally, I share the view that 'direct descendant' is synonymous with 'descendant' and will use the term 'patrilineal descendant' or 'matrilineal descent' when appropriate.

On the light side, perhaps we need a word for an x-chromosome-based ancestor.  My father is the x-father of my sister but not of me.  Our maternal grandfather is x-grandfather to both my sister and me but our paternal grand-father is x-grandfather to neither of us.

Comments

I agree, it would  be nice to have a name for X chromosome ancestors, but "X chromosome ancestor," or "on an X chromosome lineage," as kludgy and technical as they sound, are the best I can figure.

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Honestly, I should have never posted question.  While posting, I was actually thinking about “direct relative” or “direct relationship” as opposed to a descendant. In short, “direct descendant” is obviously redundant.

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Enrique, I don't think it's a bad question. Others posted good explanations, so I learned something new here :-).

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Thanks, I. Caruso!

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I'm watching "Finding Your Roots" right now. I think I have figured out why this phrase is everywhere in our lingo now.... Henry Louis Gates is a big fan of it! He says it with great gusto, ".... you are a DIRECT!!!!! descendant." I now recall him doing this in lots of episodes, really digging into the word DIRECT. :)

No such thing as a bad question!

(Edit: first try posting this I got auto corrected to "you ate a direct ancestor"... which, though funny, I've now corrected)

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Thanks, Daphne Maddox!  

I think people, including myself, are more concentrated on the idea of emphasizing that we are a “direct relative” from a certain ancestor.  And, in so doing, our brains are tricked into thinking that “direct descendant” is synonymous to “direct relative” instead of knowing and distinguishing that you don’t really need to add “direct” to “descendant” because it is simply redundant, especially in our modern day usage.  In short, in modern day usage, “direct relative” is simply a synonym for “descendant” without the need of adding “direct” to “descendant”.

“Direct” added to “descendant” just seems (although wrong) to add more emphasis to the fact that someone is a descendant of somebody.  I think that Henry Louis Gates is just trying to add more emphasis by using “direct descendant” for the persons involved in his program.