Question

Is there a way to block other WikiTree members from engaging with you? Pretty much every other site has that capability.

I'm not speaking of any particular instance right now, but I've seen (and experienced) the forums get heated at times in ways that will never be productive. And usually in those instances the OP is a minority, LGBTQ+, etc. and the problematic responders are...not. So is there a way to nip those problems in the bud when people are not engaging in good faith?

(I think about this periodically, but it came up because I was looking at verrrrrry old random threads and yikes. Again, I'm not speaking about a current specific situation.)

Comments

I know what you mean, Melissa.  I have also noticed a shift from nicely asked questions and answers to snotty, gut-wrenching barbs usually from those asking the questions, not the kind volunteers who answer the questions.  I don't like it either, and have limited my comments here as a result.  I look forward to the nice people getting active again someday.  When WikiTree ceases to be an enjoyable enterprise, I will have to leave entirely.

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KItty, I agree that there are lots and lots of people that no longer interact at all with G2G because of past actions that have occurred on this forum in the last few years. Many have cut back on what they do on Wikitree, which is unfortunate, but everyone makes their choices for their own reasons.

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Kitty, there have been always been Wikitreers who are less than kind. I came to this forum myself a few years ago because a Wikitreer told me to "learn how to read" when I suggested a merge... only for the other Wikitreers to scold me and tell me I was wrong for being offended.

(The profiles, btw, were merged! It was an obvious duplicate situation. So I was scolded and treated like a fool for no reason whatsoever.)

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I am sorry to hear that, Jessica, truly.  I use Gab.com social media and if someone is rude or calls me a name there, I type the word “click” (as in I am hanging up on you) to tell them they are blocked, and then I block them from my view.  It is a nice feature and along the lines of what Melissa is proposing.  I don’t care what rude people think of me or in general, so I block their diatribes from my view.  It doesn’t hamper the blocked person in any way, it just  saves me from getting worked up over nothing.

Answer 1

Yeah, I get that it's collaborative, and I can see how at the admin level, site-wide banning would be counterproductive, but the rules don't exactly help to foster collaboration. (Quite the opposite in my case: there are certain areas of G2G I will never engage with ever again even if I have ideas, and there are topics I know better than to bring up other than in the most basic, general terms. And I'm definitely not the only one.)

Because it's actually quite easy to be rude/mocking/sarcastic on posts without technically breaking any rules. That's how dog whistles and microaggressions work. And then the onus falls on the person who is targeted to do the extra legwork of flagging, explaining, etc., and honestly it's just not worth the headache.

Comments

No, I'm not going to be the bigger person and make an extra effort to smile and be polite when someone is being a racist.

As explained previously, we have means to handle this.

It's an online forum, and most forums allow blocking to keep the peace and curb trolling.

It is indeed an online forum. And like other forums/sites, it has rules. But above and beyond that, it is a collaborative forum where everyone should be included. Everyone should have a say, whether or not we understand or agree with it. As long as it follows the rules.

Ultimately, WikiTree is not for everyone.

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Ultimately, WikiTree is not for everyone.

That is the message that people on the more diverse end of the WIkiTree spectrum have been receiving loud and clear for a very long time now, and WT is all the poorer for it because that's the segment it needs to help with diversity initiatives. But I'll continue to block myself from certain areas of G2G and spare myself the headache.

For what it's worth, it's entirely possible to go your entire existence on WT without ever having "collaborated" with someone else. People stick to their little corners and go on about their business all the time. I'm pretty sure there are thousands of members who have never touched G2G. There are also probably lots of people who use the forum to just goof around and chat with friends. So the idea of the forum as this universal, sacrosanct space where everyone talks to each other for the collective genealogical good, and if we don't everything will fall apart, is just...not realistic.

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But G2G is not the only way you can interact with other members. The entire tree is a collaborative space - where we have profile comments, change histories, etc.

For what it's worth, it's entirely possible to go your entire existence on WT without ever having "collaborated" with someone else.

Technically possible, but highly unlikely. If someone was ever to make it here years, actively contributing, and never run across another member, then we have much larger problems than being able to block another user so they don't hurt our feelings.

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Running across other members does not mean you are collaborating with them, nor does the existence of edit histories. If that's the case, then WikiTree really is just as "collaborative" as, say, a Facebook page.

If anything, the progression of your comments illustrates the problems with moderation: quote the rules, quote the rules, quote the rules, dismiss with a comment about "hurt feelings." Which was exactly my experience a few months ago, and which is why I no longer engage in areas that will lead to anger and frustration. (For the record, I'm not angry or frustrated with you. I made this post with enough distance from specific situations so that the discussion could remain emotionally detached.)

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There has been no dismissal of your thoughts/comments. My comment was intended as a general comment about blocking. I could have made that clearer - so I apologize for that. What I had intended is that being able to block other users will be abused for very small reasons, such as "they hurt my feelings".

I have been happy to engage with you - and you are correct, we often post the rules for clarification. They are what drive the site and what we have to rely on.

But to close out the conversation - I do not believe such a clocking mechanism could be supported. It would fundamentally change how WikiTree and G2G work.

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"They hurt my feelings" is no small thing, especially when it's personal. If blocking is technically impossible or unfeasible, it is what it is. But if it's due to some philosophical point, then WikiTree is already fundamentally changed because people have already removed themselves from the conversation entirely. It's not robust, it's muted.

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… What I had intended is that being able to block other users will be abused for very small reasons, such as "they hurt my feelings”…

But Steven, I still think this is missing the point.

I’m pretty certain that Melissa is not advocating outright blocking users from contributing to G2G nor any other part of WikiTree. They simply want a way of closing the door on a person so that they don’t have to hear them for the time being. Yes we can all leave a thread if it gets too much but sometimes that’s not a solution. Being able to shut out the ‘noise’ occasionally is often helpful in life. The only person that would suffer if one ‘abused’ this would be oneself. This is not a request for moderators to shut somebody out nor anything like it, just a request for a mechanism to preserve one’s peace - a pair of virtual earplugs if you like.

I for one don’t have a great deal of time to spend on WikiTree, so the time I do use here is precious to me. If that’s spoiled by a few individuals who just can’t be civil then why is the onus on me to have to deal with it.

And yes, I believe it’s entirely possible to practically avoid collaboration on WikiTree. Some don’t enjoy collaboration, some just want to add to the big tree and that’s enough. There’s no need to come onto G2G, nor answer comments or PMs. There are folk who have never set foot here yet they have managed to contribute plenty with next to no collaboration. I don’t see that as a problem but rather just a choice.

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Steven, I think part of what some folks here are trying to express is that the way the rules are set up, the onus is on the person to be kind and patient with a bully, instead of on the bully to stop doing their bullying.

Imagine a Wikitreer calling your people and community "inferior" and that they deserved to be genocided. If you get upset, now you're the bad guy for not being silent and accommodating of the racist person who said those things. The racist person doesn't get in trouble. You get in trouble. You get Mentors and other Wikitreers lining up to tell you how bad you are, how you don't contribute to the community, how your feelings are wrong and the only person who's feeling matter, apparently, is the bully. You can say, "oh that would never happen" but myself and several others have explained repeatedly in this thread that it HAS happened. More than once.

I'm not sure I should speak on behalf of Melissa and the others, but I think a statement from the Wikitree Mentors that racism, homophobia, etc., is not acceptable on Wikitree and is not part of Wikitree's culture, would go a long ways to assure people that their concerns are being heard.

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This is a good idea, Jessica. The WikiTree Acceptable Use Policy prohibits posting content that "is offensive or promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual; harasses or advocates harassment of another person". But in the light of the issues raised here, suggesting that this is not always observed, it would be useful if a new official statement reinforcing the prohibition could be made.

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@Jessica - as a member of the WikiTree Team, I can definitely confirm that racism, harassment, etc., is not acceptable on Wikitree - through the means (AUP) Jim noted - as well as those policies we have already mentioned in this discussion, such as the Honor Code and Discussion Rules.

...the onus is on the person to be kind and patient with a bully, instead of on the bully to stop doing their bullying.

It is also important to note that Mentors, Mediators, Moderators, and the Team cannot actively monitor every conversation in G2G or every profile comment. So we just ask that members alert us by using flags so the appropriate actions can be taken.

Answer 2

WikiTree is not like other sites - we were founded on the idea of being a collaborative community. Blocking other members would be counterproductive to our mission, so there is no such option.

However, being a collaborative community, we do have rules. Most importantly is our Honor Code, where:

III. We know mistakes are inevitable. We don't want to be afraid to make them. We assume that mistakes are unintentional when others make them and ask for the same understanding.

IV. We know misunderstandings are inevitable. We try to minimize them by being courteous to everyone, even those who don't act accordingly.

There are also Discussion Rules. If you see someone breaking these rules or acting against our Honor Code, you should use flagging options to notify the Moderators, or use the Problems with Members process.

In addition, it is also important to DWWA  (Don't WikiTree While Angry) and to Stop, Drop, and Roll. It may just be better to ignore that member, or cool off and come back with fresh eyes to review the situation again.

Comments

Steven, well said, I would include the Stay on topic rule. It is hard to argue with documented facts. Don't discuss religion or politics. Don't assume/comment on gender or sexual identity or race; it has nothing to do w/ genealogy unless we're talking about the person profiled. Even if those topics are brought up and a disagreement follows that doesn't make a person transphobic, sexist or racist. Rude is rude no matter your age , gender or race.

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Respectfully, K, this feels a bit like you're denying the issue exists at all. Multiple people here have shared that they've experienced racism, sexism, transphobia, etc. on this forum. We aren't just having disagreements and then hurling accusations. It's tough to discuss solutions to a problem when some are arguing that the problem isn't really there.

I've only seen it come up when it was on topic, so that doesn't seem to be the issue. Genealogy is the study of people's lives and families, so these very human issues can be quite relevant.

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Even ignorant people are entitled to an opinion. Under the first amendment, they are also entitled to express their opinion. Solutions do exist for those that hold the minority view, and they are the same resolutions available to all members of WikiTree. I do not seek, nor desire, changes or special consideration based on my minority status.

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The first amendment to the United States Constitution, which protects public speech from censorship by governmental entities, has NOTHING to do with what the rules may be on any PRIVATE property, Wikitree included. It is irrelevant to this discussion.

Private property owners (including websites) can and do make rules that suit their determination of what is acceptable speech and what is not.

Ignorant people are entitled to their opinion. They are not entitled to share it on private property. That is a right that is conveyed by the property owner (Wikitree's ownership).

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I think the rules of discussion that wikitree established, and Steven has alluded to, are what is being discussed. Wikitree does have the right to determine speech deemed appropriate as well as rules of engagement and resolution of disagreements. They are fairly apparent if one chooses to read them then accept them. IF, I determined them to be unacceptable, I would my dissatisfaction elsewhere.

Answer 3

There isn't a way to block other members from contacting you.

Definitely don't be afraid to use the "flag" link on a G2G post/comment or a comment on a profile if you think a conversation is getting heated -- that will alert the G2G moderators.

Answer 4

Blocking or banning someone from an open forum because a member doesn't want to engage in an exchange of ideas, or difference thereof, is hardly inclusive. It would also be impossible to determine who should or should not participate in the discussion. As far as personal interaction regarding contact, I suppose there are some I would not open a PM from. I would give them the same consideration I would a scammer. On the other hand, I have had exchanges with people who share opposing views of my own, who have caused me to reevaluate my point of view.

I have been flagged before and still contend I was not the antagonist. I chose to dop the issue and consider the source, something I have grown accustomed to over the years.

Answer 5

First, I just want to say that I totally get what you're saying and I'm sorry you've had to deal with this stuff on G2G. I've definitely had to walk away from threads where horrible things were being said but because no rules were technically being broken there was nothing I could do, and it was very frustrating.

A tricky thing about this issue is that WikiTree isn't really like a social media site. Simply blocking people makes a lot of sense on Facebook, etc. It makes more sense to compare WikiTree to Wikipedia. The closest thing Wikipedia has to personally blocking another user is the User Mute feature, which as far as I can tell basically just stops you from getting notifications you would normally get from user interactions. I think it's hard to do much more than that on a wiki, because of course we can't have it where anyone can stop anyone from, say, editing profiles they manage. (That's not me defending aggressors; that's me imagining what they could do with blocking powers.)

So, I don't really have answers, unfortunately. Maybe there are improvements that could be made to G2G specifically; it's just that the wiki context does complicate matters. I hope that we can find some kind of solution, because the forum would definitely be worse off if good users started avoiding it for their own well-being.

I was gonna wrap this up with something about how things are improving, but I can't actually say that with any confidence. It's been a while since I saw any blatant transphobia posted here, but maybe that's just been luck lol.

Comments

Hi! Yeah, the technical obstacle and the fact that it is a wiki is something I've considered, because if you block someone you don't want to lose the ability to see the profiles they manage as well. I'm not sure what the answer is, or if there even is one, short of separating the site from the forums kind of like Find A Grave does (which would probably be a logistical nightmare ).

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WikiTree and g2g are already run on separate platforms.

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That's true, Melanie, and I'm not at all familiar with the platform G2G runs on, so I can't begin to guess what's technically possible. I think we'd definitely first need a more specific idea of what blocking someone would look like within the context of just G2G, and then find out if anything like that is feasible.

As you've no doubt noticed, it can be tough to convince people something like this is necessary. We all love to imagine that WikiTree doesn't have these problems. But alas, the world has these problems, and we aren't immune. (Though honestly it's nothing compared to what I heard people say out loud at in-person genealogy conferences, so maybe we can be a little proud of that haha)

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G3G runs on question2answer.  The same question arose there in Nov 2022 - somebody asking for blocking features to be added, but at the time there was no available plug in.

https://www.question2answer.org/qa/104816/hello-how-can-users-block-other-users-this-option-is-needed?show=104816#q104816

Answer 6

Oh no! That is awful! Thankfully I’ve not met anyone terribly rude. But then again I was a teacher for 20 years and you have to know how to talk to them so they feel bad about how they acted.

But ultimately everyone here are volunteering to put genealogy information up  and with out volunteers there would be a lot more work to do. I think people that have used WikiTree longer need to remember how confusing it was at first , especially those that have never used a markup language (coding) before. You can always ask me. I will answer anything I’m able to. You can contact me here on Wikitree or by email. If you need my email just private message me and I will send it to you. Have a great day!

Answer 7

Could this be built into a browser extension, similar to other features not available with the basic WikiTree system ? Then members could choose whether to load that blocking app or extension.