G2G: Is John Ruggles Sr. the one baptized 27 November 1575, Sudbury, Suffolk?

Question

His biography currently says that "John Ruggles was born circa 1594 at England (based on the estimated date of marriage.)"  But it also says he was married ca. 1600, so something isn't right (actually first married in 1598/99). Could he be John Ruggles Sr. baptized 27 November 1575, Sudbury, Suffolk?  That would be the right age to be married  in 1598/99.  A lookup in Anderson's "Winthrop Fleet" might yield a lot of good information.

Comments

A link to the baptism record might be helpful. Do you have one?

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The only source I have is his findagrave profile which gives that 1575 date for his baptism at Sudbury. It also give the date of his first marriage in 1598/99. The source given for him is "Anderson's Winthrop Fleet".   https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/35376973/john-ruggles

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Using FindAGrave for a 16th century profile is not recommended

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Supposedly, that book is well sourced. Maybe you could get someone to look up the relevant info in it and pass it along. It could lead to additional useful information.

Answer 1

There are two John Ruggles listed in Anderson's GMD:

1) Ruggles, John: Sudbury, Suffolk; 1630; Boston [GMB 1609-9; WF 574-77]. (Son George Ruggles came to New England in 1633 [GMB 1604-7].)

2) Ruggles, John: Nazeing, Essex; 1635 on Hopewill; Roxbury [GM 2:6:109-12].

Anderson's Winthrop Fleet (pages 148, 573-76)

Page 148 shows Hannah Bright, b. Watertown 17 March 1643 [WaVR 1:10; NEHGR 7:283] m. Roxbury 26 May 1670 Samuel Ruggles.

Pages 572-74 covers Jeffrey Rugges from Sudbury, Suffolk migrated 1630. Six chidren with his first wife (Susanna, John (bp. 25 Dec 1609); received bequest in will of grandfather George Rugggles 8 April 1616), Samuel, Sarah, Abraham, Isaac) and three with his second wife (Ann, Isaac, Abigail) plus other info.

Pages 574-577: John Ruggles of Sudbury, migrated 1630 to Boston. Cattle herder. Married 12 Feb 1598/0 Elizabeth Smith. Children Phillip, Elizabeth, John (bp 22 Jan 1603/4), George, Susan, John. With second wife: Mary, Dorothy, Mary. Indicates John was brother of Jeffrey. George , father of John Ruggles included bequest to John Ruggles...there is more, but I am participating in the THON this weekend.

These are the basics. I have Anderson's Newsletters, but I must return to the Thon. Hope this helps.

Comments

Thank you Carol,

    That information from Anderson's Winthrop Fleet book apparently does not give a baptism date for John Ruggles, but the marriage to Elizabeth Smith in 1598/99 does make the 1575 baptism likely for him (right age, right place).  The 1594 birth year cannot be correct if he married in 1598/99.

     His son John (bp. 1603/04) died young, so the second son John would be the one who was born 1611 and also died young (1612), and I have already created a wikitree profile for this John Ruggles Jr.  (Ruggles-1728).

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Thank you Carol, this is helpful.  Could you (or could someone else with access to Winthrop Fleet) post the sources that are relied upon there so we can clean this profile up?

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The GM Newsletter 21 (2012):18, on American ancestors at https://www.americanancestors.org/DB1567/i/53625/18/1423761354 explains the origins of the new discovery - it arose from work by Myrtle Hyde FASG, who established that John and Jeffrey Ruggles were brothers, and they and several other emigrants in the Winthrop Fleet had close connections to All Saints, Sudbury, Suffolk. I suspect the rest may be coming from the Sudbury All Saints parish records? It would be great if we can pin this down.

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Ha! Bingo, Ken was right.  The GM Newsletter 23 (2014): 20 identifies this John Ruggles as the one who was baptized at All Saints on 27 November 1575.

I will clean up the profile and see if I can find a source for those baptism and marriage records from All Saints, Sudbury.  If anyone knows of a source for them, please weigh in.

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It might, but I am working on the THON and don't have a lot of time. Here is the Winthrop sourc:

Anderson, Robert Charles. The Winthrop Fleet. Massachusetts Bay Company Immigrants to New England 1629-1630. Boston, MA: NEHGS, 2012. Pages 478, 473-576. I own the book.

I own the book of Anderson's Newsletters as well, and mentioned that source, but don't have time right now. I see somone likely saw that note and looked the Newsletters up online. Good!

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Hi Carol,

You have already been so helpful, but hoping you might have a bit to check in on the continuing John Ruggles thread here.

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I'm traveling until next Thursday, the 3rd & will not have access to any of my sources or books until I return. I'll keep this email as a reminder. Have a great week.

Answer 2

I just created a wikitree profile for his son John Ruggles Jr.  His findagrave entry lists "Anderson's Winthrop Fleet" as a source.

Answer 3

His first wife Elizabeth died in November 1612, so his marriage to Frances was after that.  Therefore, I am changing marriage date to Frances from 1600 to after 1612.  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/35376973/john-ruggles

Answer 4

Perhaps I should do a separate G2G "Look Up Request" for Anderson's book "Winthrop Fleet" about John Ruggles.  This one for John Warren seems to have resulted in really good information: https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1494576/look-up-request-winthrop-fleet-r-c-anderson?show=1494576#q1494576

Answer 5

I looked at the earlier generations of this family and added a couple sources for Thomas Ruggles or Rogyll (Ruggles-8). His father is shown as William, of Lincolnshire, but without sources. William's father is shown as "Rogyll Ruggles" (Ruggles-331), which seems unlikely.

However, it might be that Thomas's family actually came from Glemsford, about 5 miles from Sudbury. In 1527 William Ruggyll, senior, of Glemsford, fuller, was a defendant for debt in Common Pleas.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT3/H8/CP40no1055/aCP40no1055fronts/IMG_0854.htm
In 1492, William Rogyll, of Glemysford, gentleman, was a defendant for debt.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/H7/CP40no919/aCP40no919fronts/IMG_0485.htm

So it might make sense to look for the origins of this family in Glemsford rather than Lincolnshire.
 

Answer 6

Findagrave is not an acceptable source for pre-1700 profiles. Looking at Anderson's Great Migration Directory I can see that his Winthrop Fleet clearly contains significant new information compared to Great Migration Begins, including that the George currently noted as a possible brother was his son. 

Please do not edit this profile (or add any family) based on Findagrave. Get hold of the information in Winthrop Fleet, and if possible, check its sources. Then edit the profile with reliable, documented information.

Comments

The will of George Ruggle of Sudbury, the elder, clothier (PCC 1616) is available online.

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/894036:5111?tid=&pid=&queryId=b6438890fb146d93dc19993ed1b5f0c6&_phsrc=sVO3716&_phstart=successSource

He mentions:
Jeffrey youngest son
John and Samuel, sons of Jeffrey
Susan, wife of Jeffrey
John, eldest son
George, Philip, Elizabeth, Susan, children of John
George, son of testator
George, John, Amos, Anne, children of George
Brother William, his son Thomas
Brother Edward. His children Nicholas, Richard, Mary
Brother Thomas
Testator's 4 children: John, George, Geoffrey, Bridgett Harris
Susan Ruggle now my wife
Sons John and George to be executors

It seems likely that John, the eldest son, who has several children in 1616, must have been older than 22, as shown now. 1575 seems much more likely than 1594.

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I have created three new wikitree profiles for Jeffrey and John's siblings:  George Ruggles Jr., Bridget (Ruggles) Harris, and Jane Ruggles.  But since Jane isn't listed in 1616, and I couldn't find any marriage for her, I assume she probably died young.  These are the only 5 children I have found for George Sr.

Answer 7

I was able to access The Winthrop fleet of 1630, an account of the vessels, the voyage, the passengers, and their English homes from original authorities, by Charles Edward Banks

Not Anderson, at least not so far.

Anyway, if it helps, Banks had this in his notes entitled ALPHABETICAL LIST OF PASSENGERS:

Ruggles, John Boston,- Probably from Glemsford, Suffolk. Church member No. 129. Freeman July 1632 (M.C.R., I, 367).

Ruggles, Frances Ruggles,- Wife of John. Church member No. 37 in 1630

Ruggles, _____,- Daughter of John. Died 1631 (Prince, II, 17, 69).

Ruggles, Jeffrey,- From Sudbury, Suffolk. ‘Died soon’ (Ch.Ch.Rec.). 

Ruggles, Margaret,- Wife of Jeffrey. Church member No. 47 (Ch.Ch.Rec.) 1630.