Why am I able to create a new profile without any headers?

Question

I was able to make a profile by pasting my sources over the ==Biography== and the ==Sources== headings. How is this possible? I thought that these two headings are required for every profile.

I am using the save person data on sourcer to create the new profile. Then I go to the sources and refresh the page so that I can use BEE to get all the citations. I then highlighted the bio and sources headers and pasted the citations. I then clicked create person expecting to get a notice that I needed to have the bio and sources headers but nope it created the new profile.

Comments

Hi Kathy. It's true there is no check. The way round this is to paste the biography text you have prepared between the Biography and Sources headers already in the box, not over them.

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That's what I do. I just thought that there was something in place that prevents a new profile being created without the headers.

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Seems there needs to be a check.

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In the 'old system' we could put sources in a separate box from the 'text' box, but we never saw headers, so if the 'new, improved' process is showing headers that are allowed to be cleared and the profile can be saved like that, it seems this is a serious bug.

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It isn't really any more a bug than the fact that when you edit an existing profile, you can remove the headers if you want. Just don't do it :-)

If it happens by accident as in the case Kathy describes, it's not hard to fix with a subsequent edit.

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It seems to me that if you are selecting the headers, then pasting other text over them, thus overriding the system, it should be termed a "bug".  Bug, or not, it is something that needs to be squashed as the profiles thus generated are causing work for other people.

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Exactly Melanie. I saw a profile with no headings and only a link to the FS profile. I wanted to know if it is possible to override the headings to create a profile. The answer is yes. The help page https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Editing_Tips  says that you need to have the Bio and Sources headings. So why am I able to override them. 

"The text section of every person profile should have these two sections:

== Biography ==

== Sources ==

<references />

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Maybe you're right, Kathy, particularly in the light of what Ian says about the thon. However I think this could be described as an improvement request not a bug report, because at present the system is working as designed. Adding the tag  improvements  might encourage action.

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Although it is a very undesirable feature of the new editing system to be able to do this, Jim is spot-on - it is *NOT* a bug.  A bug is something that prevents the system from working as it is intended to ... typically a bug would produce an error.  This is something that is an absolute no-no, according to WikiTree policy, but it is not a software error, however the software could (and, in my opinion, should) be very easily changed to enforce these headings always being there.

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I think it is a 'bug' that the software is allowing profiles to be created like this, since it did not do this previously. This is something new since the 'new' add profile process was started.  Some of the 'original, very early wikitree' gedcom profiles came in with no headings, but any profile created since that time always has the Biography, Sources and references lines added to them.   There should be an error created, preventing the profile from being created, or saved, when the headings are not in the profile.  We see an error when there is no dates in profiles or emails in profiles, preventing the profile from being created or saved. This is the same type of error, I think.

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If you happen to have the WikiTree Browser Extension (WBE) installed and the BioCheck feature enabled, at least you will get a message near the Save button when the profile lacks the Biography or Sources heading, lacks the references tag, or might not be sourced.

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Kay, do you check for all language versions of the bio and sources headings, or just the english versions?

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Jamie - I had some great help from our international community to help identify the headings for Biography and Sources

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Could you send me a list -- then I can write up a to-do item for a new validation.

Answer 1

I agree with Jim. This isn't a bug or a problem. The default way will give you the headings when you hit the Create Profile button. The advanced way for advanced members - the kind of people who know not to delete the headings - gives you the headings before you hit the Create Profile button. If you then delete them... As Jim said, you can fix your mistake on the edit page.

If you add a narrative and sources (and possibly categories) without headings and expect the system to add the headings, it means that the system needs to figure out where to put the headings. It would need to look for categories to put the Biography heading after them, and then look for what looks like a Sources section, with citations preceded by asterisks, to place the Sources heading before that. Some people don't add asterisks before each source, so what is the system going to do next? The system obviously isn't set up to do all this.

Edit: I've been informed that during the thon, some 'advanced' members have created many (thousands of?) profiles without headings, which does seem like a big problem. And on second thoughts, yes, maybe the system should check a bio when the 'Create Profile' button is hit to prevent profiles being created without the minimum required headings.

Comments

In addition to beefing up the software to handle this when new profiles are added, edit-bot could also be set up to find profiles missing these headings and insert them and it could be made to periodically run against the database to do so.  We have a lot of profiles - some here for several years - that are missing these headings because someone removed them, not realizing they are required.  While we're at it, let's not forget ensuring that the <references /> tag is also on all profiles!

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The new profile creation software, does itself create new profiles with no headers in some situations. There is no deletion by the users - it is all in the software. This is an official update so it is assumed that the headings are no longer essential. Personally I prefer having headings so use the longer full entry method now, which is a bit slower.

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The policy requirement for a Biography header, a Sources header, and a <references /> line has not changed. They are still essential. If the software does not provide them, it's up to members to do so.

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Looking back I found a few profiles I haven't got back to work on yet, and can pinpoint the date of the change ( ie to creating profiles with no headings ) to the 27th of March 2023.  Also missing are the imported "facts" but the link to ancestry was still there. Here's an example:  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Trollope-362

I stress that I did not delete the headings. The day before, everything was fine and then on the 23rd, not so good. It's a shame as many, many people use WikiTree X and it worked well for years, up until the 23rd. Perhaps the problems in the Connect-a-Thon are due to members still using WikiTree X for its speed and ease of profile adding ( and because they have been using it for years ) ?  A fix to the new profile creation software to go back to proper interaction with WikiTree X would be welcome.

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The new profile creation system was turned on for everyone on or just before 24 March (though optional beta versions had been available before that).

You're right, Joe: WikiTree X is no longer maintained and is known not to work with the new profile creation system. See Jamie's message, which says that WikiTree Sourcer provides an alternative.

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The new profile creation software, does itself create new profiles with no headers in some situations. There is no deletion by the users - it is all in the software. This is an official update so it is assumed that the headings are no longer essential. Personally I prefer having headings so use the longer full entry method now, which is a bit slower.

Do you have an example of a profile where the headings weren't created (and weren't accidently deleted by the user?) That shouldn't be happening -- they should be added automatically after save if the user uses the basic box, and should be pre-loaded in the text box in advanced mode. 

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Jamie, Joe gave an example above, Trollope-362, at this link.

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That's a WikiTree X filled-out profile though, correct? If WikiTree X is deleting the headers when it fills the source, that's not an issue with the site, it's an issue with the extension.

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You're right, Jamie. Unfortunately WikiTree X has become dangerous. Would it be justified to prevent people from continuing to use it if there is a technical or social way of doing that?

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I don't think anything has changed at the WikiTree X end.  The problems started after the WikiTree profile creation software was changed around 24th of March. After that, profiles created using WikiTree X had no headings or source "facts". Can you update the new profile software to keep the headings when using WikiTree X ? That would be helpful.

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I think WikiTree X put/puts a citation in the old Sources box and nothing in the Notes box. The system would then compile these with:

== Biography ==

Very basic auto bio OR [contents of the Notes box]

== Sources ==

[Contents of the Sources box]

The 'basic' version of the Add Person system now has a Sources box and no Notes box. And the system does the same thing as above, but without the [contents of the Notes box] bit (as there is no Notes box).

I suspect the problem is that you are (or whoever is having this problem is) using the 'Advanced' option which was added to let people write a bio before creating the profile, and which has the Biography and Sources headings.  Then, WikiTree X is overwriting these headings with the citation.  I think the solution may be to switch off the 'Advanced' mode for profile creation.  (If I've missed something obvious or just misunderstood the situation, let me know.)

Edit:  I think I did miss something: the 'Facts'.  I think WikiTree X put these in the Notes box, but now, there's no Notes box, so these have nowhere to go.

I think your only real solution if you want to continue using WikiTree X is to contact the author and ask him very nicely to update it, which, I've heard, is unlikely to happen.

Edit 2: I may be wrong again. There may be another option.  The WBE has an Add Person Redesign feature, an attempt to restore the old look of the page for those people who prefer it as it was before.  If we just add the Notes box back into the page, you won't need the 'Advanced' option (unless you want to add categories or category information boxes).  I think using the Advanced option and WikiTree X is causing the trouble (and thinking about it, you'll probably get the same results with the BEE at the moment, which I hadn't thought about...). Restoring the Notes box and not using the Advanced option may allow people to continue using WikiTree X without getting into trouble.  (This (restoring the Notes box) is doable, in case you were wondering.)

Edit 3: I've restored the Notes box as part of the 'Add additional fields' option of the Add Person Redesign feature.

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Joe, it is WikiTree X that needs to be updated to match the new profile creation system, not the other way around. But WikiTree X is no longer being maintained, so that will not happen. See Jamie Nelson's post at this link. Jamie recommends that people switch from WikiTree X to WikiTree Sourcer.

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I did see that message, but many will not, since not many use G2G, and statements posted there also disappear quickly.  It is not quite correct; WikiTree X still works, but the new profile creation software causes it to leave out headings, which it did not do before.  I don't use it anymore, but others will, and the problems will re-occur if nothing is done.