Can we link siblings John and Elizabeth Deming through a new Unknown Deming father?

Question

From reviewing these profiles and their sources, I believe it is well-established that John Deming-7, Thomas Deming-10, and Elizabeth Deming-5 Foote Welles are all siblings, but their parents are unknown other than unsubstantiated or debunked speculation, such Jonathan Deming-16 and his wife Elizabeth Gilbert-488 Deming.

Right now these profiles are all project-protected (and should be) but have no parents linked.

Can we please have a project-protected Unknown Deming father with a DateGuess birthdate and England birthplace added so that these profiles are linked in WikiTree as siblings? And set as a rejected match to Deming-16 with a note about that.

John and Elizabeth are both my ancestors.

Edit: from further examination and discussion it appears that John and Elizabeth are (half-) siblings but Thomas is likely not.

Comments

The source I quoted can be found on Ancestry by searching for: Foote family : comprising the genealogy and history of Nathaniel Foote, of Wethersfield, Conn., and his descendants.

It is also available for download and to purchase by using the title in your search engine. 

Another source I’ve used for Deming, Foote, Churchill, Chapman, Hurlbut, White and Hodge (all follow back to Mary Deming and her parents John and Honor Treat.John Deming and Honor Treat

 I am a direct male-line descendent of John … Jonathan, JOHN, John Jr, Hezekiah, Hezekiah Jr,, Phinehas, Abner, Henry Asher, Asher Hinman, George Henry, Edward Henry … me. 

Rather than seeking an alternate father for John and Elizabeth, it appears the search might be more fruitful looking for John’s mother in England … the mysterious first wife of Jonathan (John) Deming (Demond DiMond) (1574-1673) is, in some sources, the suspected mother of John … Elizabeth’s half-brother?

 

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Christie,

My immediate concern here is not identifying who the father is, but representing the sibling relationship between John and Elizabeth given the very strong evidence they are brother and sister and the documentation pointing to them sharing a father. By adding an Unknown Deming father to both of them, that relationship will be represented and found in the relationship and connection finder tools and otherwise in the WikiTree graph,

Sources and evidence as to who that father is or might be can be left to another day, but there appears to be sufficient evidence and consensus to link them through a father.

But this requires project intervention as these profiles are protected (and should be). Any father added should also be protected.

I descend from both John and Elizabeth.

Answer 1

Thanks for suggesting this.

It does seem that these relationships appear frequently in print.  I would like to review the sources that were selected for the John Deming entry in the Great Migration Directory, as it looks like they haven't been used in creating his profile here on wikitree:

Deming, John: Unknown; 1640; Wethersfield [WetLR 1:147; Goodwin-Morgan 2:229-45; TAG 55:28-32, 62:140-42]. Key to abbreviations

Skimming through TAG 55, McCracken concludes that John and Elizabeth were not brother and sister...so I think we need to do a little more research.  If you aren't able to access the articles online, and would like copies, please PM me.

Comments

I do not have full access to TAG, but McCracken TAG 55 is the source cited, quoted and discussed in Elizabeth’s profile to assert that she is the brother of this John Deming, and cited and accepted without discussion by the Anderson (2001) source. There is no question that she had a John Deming brother local to her as her will states “I do nominate & appoynt my wel beloved Captain John Allin to be Executor ; & my beloved Brother Mr John Deming sen. & my Grand sonn Henry Buck to be the desired overseers of this my will;”

Given the presumptive age difference it is unlikely that they were uterine halfsiblings, regardless, I think it’s at least enough basis to have an Unknown Deming father with a guessed age linked to John and Thomas and as an uncertain father linked to Elizabeth.

Moreover John Deming-7 does indeed have a firstborn son John Deming jnr. Is there another John Deming Sr. candidate in Wethersfield that could possibly have Elizabeth’s brother and nominated as overseer of her will?

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I stand corrected! That's what I get for skimming, McCracken does eventually concede that they were brother and sister.

In looking at Thomas Deming-10, it says that there is no relationship to John Deming-7.  Before we connect the profiles to a parent, the proof for doing so should probably be on each of the profiles.

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I was just looking into Thomas as well and it seems there has been DNA studies that have not found a link between Thomas and John.

the linked source is offline and archived here https://web.archive.org/web/20140110021456/http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~flpgs/pdf/DNAandGenealogy.pdf

But it does look like Elizabeth and John are siblings.

I’m hesitant to update these profiles as they are project managed but I could work on it later this weekend if you would rather I did it.

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Hi Nathan,

If you're more comfortable, you could create the linking page and add the information there.  And then I could transfer the information to the profiles. (FYI I am a coordinator for the PGM project so I can make the connections).

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Hi Nathan,

I've added a connecting profile, and added the McCracken citation and just basic info.  (estimated date of birth for him to be 25 years before Elizabeth's).

It would be great if you could add what you can to the new profile.  Please don't let the Project Management give you pause.  As a PGM coordinator, I'm inviting you to go for it! Thanks for seeing that these siblings got connected.  (And if you need or want a copy of the McCracken article, send me a PM)

Answer 2

From research I've done on the Chapman, Welles, Hurlbut, Churchill and Hodge connections to Mary Deming, d John Deming and Honor Treat, I've found early Demings mentioned in many early Connecticut Family histories. The one that seems to hold hints/answers for your question is "John Deming and Honor Treat Family", It says (with sufficient documentation!) that John Deming Jr was the son of John Deming and an unknown spouse. Jonathan was his son by Honor Treat (1615-1705). Jonathan's siblings included: Sarah Deming Moody; Hannah Deming Buckley; Rachel Deming Morgan; Samuel Deming m Sarah Buck, who  married [2] Benjamin Churchill; Ebenezer m Sarah; David Deming m Mary; Mary Deming Hurlbut [Hurlbut, White, Churchill, Hodge.Three generations later, Benjamin Hodge married Sarah Churchill — Kissing cousins?; Mercy Deming (1) Curtis (2) Joseph Wright.

Under "Further Deming Family Connections": Elizabeth stated in her 1678 will, "my beloved brother Mr. John Deming sen," as noted in an earlier reply. John Deming was appointed a supervisor of Thomas Welles's will and took inventory of same. Elizabeth was most likely John's half sister.

Comments

Thank you Christie - could you please provide a full cite to that book so others can find it and review the underlying sources it cites?  Is it available online?

Answer 3

I often run into similar situations when tracing my ancestors, or my in-laws and their ancestors.  FamilySearch or even a source on WikiTree will be a 1900 or 1880 U.S. Census with the ancestor and a previously unknown to me sibling living together, but no older sources and no source for parents.  If at least one of the siblings is male, l can feel confident guessing the unknown father's family name and then create something like Mr. Unkown Jones with wildly estimated dates and the birth location from the Census record.