I am looking for information on Edward Roper.

+2 votes
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Edward Roper is my Great Grandfather, he was born in Reading, Berkshire, England in 1882. He was married to Ellen Maude (Lyne) Roper. They lived in Portsmouth, Hampshire, England until his death in 1966. I would be grateful if anyone can give me any info such as his parent's names as a starting point. Many thanks.
in Genealogy Help by Emma Terry G2G Crew (400 points)

4 Answers

+1 vote
 
Best answer
My curiosity was piqued and I ordered the marriage certificate of Edward Roper and Ellen Maud Lyne.

The couple married at Portsmouth register office and, according to the information they gave, Edward was 23, a bachelor who worked as a brewer's cellarman; at the time of the marriage he was resident at 18 Hambrook Street Southsea and his father was William Roper who worked as a Carpenter and Joiner.

Ellen was a 19 year old spinster and her father was George Thomas Lyne (deceased) whose occupation had been house decorator.  Ellen's residence at the time of the marriage was 34 Church Road Kingston which is the same address which was given when 'George Thomas Lyne, painter, age 39' was buried on 31st March 1897 at Portsea.
by Anonymous Baker G2G6 Mach 4 (49.1k points)
selected by Emma Terry
Thank you for doing this, AB. The address 34 Church Road is also listed as the place of death on the probate record for  Isabella Anne (sic) Young in 1903.  

In terms of looking for Edward, does the marriage cert give anything else potentially useful - eg particularly the names of the witnesses?

(Edited because I hadn't read your answer properly.)
The witnesses to the marriage were Albert Amey and Emily Lyne.

On the 1939 Register Edward gives his date of birth as 15th September 1881.  Assuming this is true, a search on Freebmd for a birth of an 'Edward' in the 'Reading district' between Q3 and Q4 1881 produces 6 registrations, (5 with mother's maiden name)

Edward James Greaves and Edward Somerset G Taylor died in 1881 and 1883.

Edward Thomas Clements, Edward Searl and Edward James Stroud can all be located with their families.

The only other birth registration is for Edward James William Quelch in Q4 1881 which has no mother's maiden name.

On 1891 census there is an Edward J Quelch, age 9, born Reading Berkshire living in The Boys Home, 137 Greenwich Road, Greenwich but I am unable to find any further sightings of him in later census (there is further information on the Boys Home at www.childrenshomes.org.uk GeeenwichFegan).

Of course, all the above is based on the dob of 15 September 1881 being true.

Thank you. 

I see you and I have been exploring some of the same things. smiley I also looked at the list of Edwards born in Reading, although I failed to make proper notes.blush  But from recollection, I think the results I found on FamilySearch suggested to me that Edward Quelch had emigrated to Canada as a British Home Child.  I think I found him as a servant / farm boy or something similar in Canada, and that he then married there (ie he didn't come back to the UK). I will have another look at this later. 

I also spent a while following up the idea that Edward Roper was in some way connected to what seems to have been the only Roper family living in Reading at that time.  I wasn't sure what I was looking for exactly, but where it led me was to Edward Moss.  His mother's maiden name was Roper, he was the same age as Edward Roper and he gave his place of birth as Reading, like Edward Roper.  The information on the marriage cert is very interesting, because Edward Moss's father was called William and he was a joiner... 

The last sighting I currently have of Edward Moss is in 1901 when he was in the Cavalry, stationed in Colchester.  I made a profile for him with the notes of what I've found, and what I would like to do next. I don't have a paid-for account at the moment, but I think having a look at his military records might be the quickest way to eliminate the possibility that he adopted his mother's maiden name on leaving the army, if anyone else has access to them.  

Edward Quelch did indeed get sent to Canada as a British Home Child: British Home Child Registry  He enlisted in the Canadian Army in 1918, so he's not our Edward.  

+2 votes
He had a sister Mary Ann Roper b-1862-1864 St Osyth Essex she married Richard Worrall b-1861

I added a source on Edwards profile
by Chris Mckinnon G2G6 Pilot (718k points)
Are you sure that's the right Edward Roper? On the 1911 census Edward clearly writes he was born in Reading while this one was born in Bury St Edmunds.
This Edward Roper appears to have been born in Bury St Edmunds in  Q2 1880.  He was in Portsmouth in 1901, and married Florence Cecilia Bartlett in 1906 in neighbouring Alverstoke registration district.  There are children subsequently born in Portsmouth.
+5 votes
The marriage certificate of Edward Roper and Ellen Lyne (Q4 1904 Portsmouth district) will confirm the name of Edward's father.

From the 1891/1901 census Edward's year of birth is 1887, it is only on the 1911 census (after he is married) that his year of birth is 'amended' to 1882 and on the 1939 Register his date of birth is 15th September 1881.  (I would suggest these amendments are because Ellen, his wife, was born in 1885 and therefore older than him).

There is a birth registration Q3 1886 in the Reading district of Berkshire for an Edward Roper, with mother's maiden name of Brown.

The 1891/1901 census have Edward Roper in the household of Edward Roper and his wife Susan.  There is a marriage Q4 1885 in the Reading district for an Edward Roper to Susan Brown.

As mentioned at the beginning, Edward's marriage certificate to Ellen will confirm his father's name.
by Anonymous Baker G2G6 Mach 4 (49.1k points)

We can hope so but I fear there's more monkey business afoot. Certainly his wife's family records are ... strange ... I'm still analysing them. There's also a witness in a court case, Edward Roper, aged 15, in 1901 from Reading but I didn't like that identification so much as he'd be just 18 when he married Ellen but perhaps that is the explanation.

Certainly the dominant factor by far in women's ages being manipulated is when they're older than their husbands but it's usually their own age that gets modified.

I'm going to bed so I'll just put what I found about the parentage of Edward's wife Ellen Maud Lyne.

Here she is in the 1891 census with parents George T and Ann Lyne:

"England and Wales Census, 1891," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:43V8-DPZ : 22 February 2021), Ellen Maud Lyne in household of George T Lyne, Portsea, Hampshire, England, United Kingdom; from "1891 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO RG 12, Hampshire county, subdistrict, The National Archives of the UK, Kew, Surrey

However I found something strange when I tried to verify the births of her and her siblings. They didn't exist. Well, not under Lyne anyway.

YOUNG, ALICE  LOUISE   FOAY  
GRO Reference: 1881  J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 513
YOUNG, WILLIAM  LYNE   -  
GRO Reference: 1882  D Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 538
YOUNG, ELLEN  MAUD   FOAY  
GRO Reference: 1885  J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 511
YOUNG, GEORGE  HENRY LYNE  FOAY  
GRO Reference: 1887  S Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 495
YOUNG, CHARLES  FREDERICK   FOAY  
GRO Reference: 1891  J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 495

The use of the surname Lyne as a middle name for several of the children is a pretty good indicator of paternity. Foay is a rare name and a George Young did marry an Isabella Ann Foay in Portsea in 1866. She might be Ann here but Isabella was born in 1846 so she'd have to have knocked off a few years and managed to have a baby aged 44. Not impossible but needs more investigation.

'A George Young did marry an Isabella Ann Foay in Portsea in 1866'.  This couple married on 28th January 1866, George Young was 21, a bachelor, occupation Cordwainer and he was the son of George Young also a Cordwainer.  Isabella was 19, a spinster and the daughter of John Foay who was a shipwright in the dock yard.

There are two Young/Foay children definitely born to this couple : Annie Young in Q3 1866 and George Henry Young Q3 1868.

Two 'possibles' (with mmn Foay) - Alice Young Q1 1873 and Alfred John Young Q3 1876.

To further confuse issues, the Alfred John Young (Q3 1876) is a lodger in the household of George T (Thomas) Lyne in 1891 as 'Alfred Young, lodger, 15, painter's apprentice, born Portsmouth'.

My original comment - 'the marriage certificate of Edward Roper and Ellen Lyne will confirm the name of Edward's father' can also apply to Ellen Lyne and who she thought her father was.
I don't think it's the one born in Reading 1886 as he's still there in the later censuses, but there don't seem to be any other births.
The death registrations for the final quarter of 1903 in Portsmouth include:

Lyne, Isabella Ann, 53, (Portsmouth Vol 2b Page 301)

Young, Isabella Ann, 53, (Portsmouth Vol 2b Page 301)

There are 11 names listed for Vol 2b Page 301, so I would guess the death certificate will say something like "Isabella Ann Lyne, also Young".  

In other words, I think Matthew Fletcher is absolutely right that Annie Lyne and Isabella Ann Young are one and the same person.
There's also 1969 Death recorded for Edward Roper in Wokingham (near Reading) which fell into the period of the birthdate being recorded. This Edward Roper was born 25 July 1886 which is further evidence that he is not Emma's great-grandfather who died in Portsmouth in 1966.

1886 Edward Roper death https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=4p%2BmlxEamM1Xi%2FRLZuRrVg&scan=1

There are very few Roper BMDs in Reading in the 1870s/80s, and these all belong to the same family - the descendants of William Roper  (Edward b 1886 was a grandson).  If Emma's Edward had a connection to Reading, then there's a good chance he had a connection of some sort to this family.  

+2 votes
I've added a 1921 census for you which might be useful.
by Gill Whitehouse G2G6 Pilot (204k points)

This 1911 census record (on familysearch) is for the same family as Gill has for 1921.  The household includes a Charles Lyne who is described as "brother" (presumably of Ellen) and was born in about 1891 - the same year as Charles Frederick Young in Matthew Fletcher's answer above.  

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