Here's a Lulu - she mysteriously appeared to have 2 children, then vanished

Question

Lulu Condie (maybe Condi) is only shown in 1892 and 1893 birth records of 2 children.  The records show that Lulu was born in Chester, England about 1861 and her children were born in New York, United States.  She is probably also mother of a third child, born about 1890.  Lulu (presumably) either died or was divorced before 1900, when her husband married someone else.

I tried every variant I can think of for Lulu, but cannot find anything more about her.  The only place I looked was familysearch, so perhaps ancestry or some England source might have more.  I added this profile while RAWKing, but now ready to give up - all help is greatly appreciated.

Answer 1

Could she be this woman? The Registration District of Great Boughton was renamed Chester RD in 1870

CONDE, LOUISA

mother's maiden name WEAVER
GRO Reference: 1863  D Quarter in GREAT BOUGHTON  Volume 08A  Page 354 Edit to add: FreeBMD shows a lot of Conde children born in the same RD. Sister Lizzy born 1858 has the same mother (you have to cross-reference with the gro.gov.uk site for mother's name) and should show up in the 1861 census

Comments

WOW, Jo - I think you just hit the jackpot!!!

Weaver is her daughter's middle name so I think that makes your find certain.  THANX a huge lot!!!

Now, if I can figure out when she came to US, when/where she married William Bowen, and when/where she died, that would tie her profile up in a pretty bow.

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She's in the 1871 and 1881 censuses living in Chester with parents John (born Oswestry, Shropshire) and Elizabeth. John may be a brother or cousin of this William Conde born in Oswestry who already has a WT profile

 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Conde-250

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OH MY GOSH - that would make a connection and maybe increase the CC7 even more - I'm working on this for the RAWK event so it would be wonderful to do that.  The only thing is, that William Conde's parents' aren't on WikiTree, plus it would take finding records for Louisa's father John, and I'm completely out of my league in England.

If you ... or anyone else who sees this ... want to work on it, feel free ... I'm just going to finish what I can on Louisa's profile and then orphan it.

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Looks like she may have married in 1886 in Chester to either a John Edwin Price or Thomas Jones Williams (GRO marriage indexes)

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oops - that's a definite problem.  I don't know when she came to the US, but she married William Bowen and had 3 children with him, all born in New York 1890, 1892 and 1893.  After that:  

• In 1900, William was a boarder in a New Jersey home in April and married the daughter in that household in June.  I don't know where the 3 children were then.
• In 1905, William and Minnie (wife #2), Lulu's 3 children, and the 2 more that William and Minnie had in 1901 and 1902 were all 1 big happy family in New Jersey.

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Not necessarily a problem - her husband may have died. Or she had an unhappy marriage in Chester and left for the US...

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There's a 4th child named Violet Louise who died young, so that definitely puts the stamp on Louise being her first name.

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Baptism  (there's no image, though).

Name Louisa Conde
Gender Female
Record Type Christening (Baptism)
Baptism Date 7 Feb 1864
Baptism Place Plemstall, Cheshire, England
Residence Place Plemonstall, Cheshire, England
Father John Conde
Mother Elizabeth Conde

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1871 census says there was an older sister Lizzy.
John Conde 46 Head Printer
Elizabeth Conde 45 Wife
Lewis Conde 18 Son
Harwood Conde 15 Son
Lizzy Conde 12 Daughter
Louisa Conde 7 Daughter
Albert Conde 2 Son

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1881 census and Lizzy has moved out.
John Conde 58 Head Printer
Elizabeth Conde 55 Wife
Louisa Conde 17 Daughter
Albert Conde 12 Son
Louisa Morris 7 G-Daughter
Albert Vaughan 3 Nurse Child (whatever that means)
Evan Holloway 28 Boarder
Fredrick Moor 27 Boarder

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Lizzy's baptism

Name Lizzy Conde
Gender Female
Record Type Christening (Baptism)
Baptism Date 20 May 1858
Baptism Place Plemstall, Cheshire, England
Residence Place Plemonstall, Cheshire, England
Father John Conde
Mother Elizabeth Conde
 

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There's a 4th child named Violet Louise who died young, so that definitely puts the stamp on Louise being her first name.

commented by Celia Marsh 

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Violet's mother is named as Lizzie, not Louisa/Lulu.

Name Violet Louise Bowen
Gender Female
Race White
Birth Date 10 Sep 1896
Birth Place Manhattan, New York City, New York, New York, USA
Residence Address Eighth Avenue 111
Certificate Number 39134
Father William S. Bowen
Mother Lizzie Bowen
Mother Maiden Name Conde

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Looks like she may have married in 1886 in Chester to either a John Edwin Price or Thomas Jones Williams (GRO marriage indexes)

commented by Jo Fitz-Henry

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There is a 1937 England & Wales, National Probate Calendar notice for a Louisa Conde-Williams, but it's filed under Williams, and I have only found the redirect note from Conde-Williams (no detail), so I cannot tell if this is the same person.

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Jo, would you kindly describe exactly how to find the GRO marriage index? The birth and death index is found through the main menu item "Search the GRO Online Index," but I have never found a marriage index. Thanks.

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I just finished Lizzy's profile - it took just about all day!  It turns out she had seven children and was already married to William Bowen and had a 6 month old when she came to the United States.  That poor woman - with all those children in 2 batches of very close births, and having lost between 2 and 5 of them at very young ages - it's no wonder she died so young!

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Hi Bennet - you can't get marriages through the GRO site (gro.gov.uk) only births and deaths at present.

The excellent FreeBMD volunteer project (https://www.freebmd.org.uk/) indexed the marriages, as well as the births and deaths before the GRO put them online. The beauty of using FreeBMD is that it has a wildcard option and a wider range of search dates.

Answer 2

I found a marriage for John Conde and Elizabeth Weaver on FMP.

First name(s) John

Last name Conde

Name note -

Marriage year 1849

Marriage date 23 Dec 1849

Residence Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Marriage place Liverpool

County Lancashire

Country England

Father's first name(s) William

Father's last name Conde

Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth

Spouse's last name Weaver

Spouse's age -

Spouse's father's first name(s) Samuel

Spouse's father's last name Weaver

Answer 3

I just found her death notice and added it to the record.  (She may have been the older sister, Elizabeth, not Louisa, as some records, including a couple of the children's births, have Lizzie):  

Elizabeth, daughter of John Conde & Elizabeth Conde, died (age 38) on 5 May 1898 in Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States.<ref>

'''Death''':

"New York, New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949"<br/>

citing FHL microfilm: 1322943; Record number: 31;<br/>

{{FamilySearch Record|2W6B-BFX}} (accessed 10 June 2023)

</ref>

Comments

Great spot Celia. Maybe it's a transcription error for her forename on Familysearch. Lulu would be a diminutive of Louise rather than Elizabeth. It's a pity the original isn't available to view. It would be great if someone could find a newspaper death announcement.

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I found an intention to marry between Louisa Conde and John Edwin Price in 1886, and they're married in the 1911 census, so I think this one must be Lizzie, who seems to disappear from the records after 1881.

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Wow - I can't believe how amazing y'all are!  I see that all kinds of new sources have been added and lots of new profiles for her parents and siblings have also been added with more sources.  Fabulous, everyone!

Now, though, I am forming the opinion that Lulu wasn't Louisa because (1) Louisa married in England only 2 or 3 years before Lulu married William Bowen in the US and (2) there is a death record for that Louisa in England in the 1930's.  Her sister Elizabeth, on the other hand, died in the United States the right time for Lulu to have died here, before William Bowen's 2nd marriage.  So ... I now think the Elizabeth in the US, who is probably the Lizzy born in England, is the Lulu I'm looking for.  Maybe, as Jo suggested, Lulu was the nickname used to distinguish her from her mother Elizabeth, even though her birth/baptism shows her as Lizzy and "Lulu" seems a more appropriate nickname for her sister Louisa.

Should we go for changing her name to Lizzy with preferred name Elizabeth and nickname Lulu?  We can then create another profile for her sister Louisa.

EDITED TO ADD:  I just hit more pay dirt.  In addition to Violet, there is another child named Lillian, born 17 Apr 1898 and died 23 Aug 1898.  Her mother's death 5 May 1898 might have been childbirth related.  This nails it - I'm going to change Lulu's profile to Lizzy/Elizabeth's and then add a new one for Louisa.

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I gladly eat my words! Why someone called Lizzy ended being called Lulu is beyond me, but the evidence fits that this Lizzy is the Lulu who went to the US. The profile was created as the wife of William Bowen and mother of his children, so to my mind should be adjusted to make her Lizzy. Her parents are still the same.

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THANX, Jo.  I just changed the name from Lulu to Lizzy, added a new profile for Louisa, and am now working on building that profile, after which I'll get back to fleshing out the one that is now Lizzy's.