Comments on William Edward Brunt

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On 13 Jun 2023 Aaron Gilmore wrote on Brunt-827:

I am working on the eldest line of Brunts. It remains uncertain whether William Edward Brunt is the same as William Edward Brent both born 1600 in the same area and died 1691. As per the material in the bio. Part of the issue is that W E Brunt did marry in 1624 Elizabeth Craddock b1602 but no death or divorce record I have found. It is very strange to have only one child for the time so named William Christian Brunt. W E Brent there are quite many records (I will post some to this profile) about his life. These are not inconsistent with Brent and Brunt being one and the same and in middle english it seems these two names were interchangeable. This is a work in progress and any assistance appreciated. 

WikiTree profile: William Brunt
in Genealogy Help by Aaron Gilmore G2G1 (1.8k points)

It would help if you added some sources to the profiles (pre-1700 profiles shouldn't even be created without sources). Where does your information come from?

Edit: That's not just to nag :) We need a reliable base to start researching from, so it would be great if you could add your emigrant relative's siblings, how you came to know that he was born in Stockport etc. That saves everyone barking up the wrong tree!

Hi Gill - thanks for that...

I have lots of documents on William Edward Brent/Brunt. 

I am making good progress on further confirmation that they are the same chap. William Brent/Brunt had quite a life. 

As an example see the below Archives links:

Writ from prison 1654

Document between W Brent and Duke of Norfolk

Evidence that William Brent/Brunt died 1691 did not marry a Barbara as that one died in 1685 a book published in the USA referred to a wife so named. It can not be the same William Brent as our one the death records say he died in 1691 in London. 

Williams Book published while in prison

other wiki trees proving William Brents ancestry

William Brunt definitely married a Elizabeth Craddock in 1624 and they had a son William Christian born 1630. These records are also on family search and I have seen the birth records stating the same. 

1 Answer

+2 votes

I agree with Gill's comment on the middle names; these often point to the conflation of individuals.

I found this old journal article on JSTOR. The Brent Family (Continued)

W. B. Chilton

The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. 14, No. 1 (Jul., 1906), pp. 95-101 (9 pages)

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4242785I 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4242785

It appears to quote Anthony a Wood  when outlining Brent's life. Wood was an antiquarian but importantly a  contemporary of William Brent (recusant and lawyer) .  He mentions his  education said to be  at the English Catholic College in St Omer, his admission to Grey's Inn, his  marriage without issue to Barbara______ and her death. He states that he died  in London on 21 May 1691.  It would be important  to find the original source of this quote. 

The admission of William Brent son of Richard  to Grey's Inn was in 1629  https://archive.org/details/registerofadmiss00gray  There is a burial  two days after the date given for his death of a William Brent Esq at St Giles in the Field Holborn in May 1691. Sharing image

William Brunt is said in your notes to have married in 1624. If the bio in the article on William Brent is accurate then these cannot have been the same man.

 In my experience it would be very unusual  for a married man to be admitted to one of the Inns of Court. ( A tiny number of practising attorneys were admitted later in life to enable them to plead in higher courts).Moreover,  the article also  says that  William Brent  was 80 in 1691 making him b circa 1611 and therefore about 18 at entry in 1629.  This was  about the  'normal' age  of admission for someone without a degree. (And as a Catholic he couldn't go to Oxford without repudiating his faith) He certainly couldn't have married at 13 (1624). 

Edit found William the recusant's profile

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Brent-348

by Helen Ford G2G6 Pilot (509k points)
edited by Helen Ford

Thanks for this the reference from the 1936 books to a marriage to William and Barbara is false it is not even clear when you read it but they infer. Refer to the source will docs I have on sources from National archives below that is for man died 1685 - different man. Yes I am aware of St Omers etc did you read the bio I have written?

Your point re Grey Inns entry of 1629 is however relevant as I can not find a death or divorce date for Elizabeth Craddock but there is records of her setting up a charity in 165os. Ironically the same year William was sent to prison in 1654 for his faith Equally There are documents on the National Archives that refer to Elizabeth Craddock being at Grey Inns well in the same time period. That I can not reconcile. 

I do not know why you refer to Oxford at all, It is clear that he did not attend there and that he was the sole member to not go. Your view is that he was admitted to Grey Inns at 18 to practise law which would be quite strange whereas admission after college at St Omers would make sense. The issue being did he attend at the age of 29 vs 18. I have seen documents that state he was at St Omers for a number of years. Which would mean this is wrong. It is very clear that men were not admitted to Grey Inns without at least 3 years of education post college and with a degree usually from Oxford or Cambridge. William did not attend either. So being admitted at 18 is impossible being admitted at 29 is. see grey inns

As to the question of middle names William Christian Brunt was born 1630 and I have a copy of the birth register with the same. William Edward born 1600 the same. So I don't see your point. 

Yes the man died in Holborn in 1691 is the one and the same. 

What article states he died at 80 in 1691? The records I have a birth date of 1600. As does even the American piece. There are zero records that have a birth date of 1611. 

Re names middle names are very rare in early 16th C England. Obviously if you have a primary record then cite it.

The article on JStor is the one that I refer to throughout.  Flip through to page 100. (Link starts at the beginning). The quote allegedly from A nthony à Wood  (1632-95)  starts with the words Henry Carey. Use the second link the first is missing a number.

I found the record for Elizabeth Craddock's Charity https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/8398f86d-2c0a-45d7-b814-483672a8960a This charity which still exists was set up for poor persons in the parish of Berkhamstead(Hertfordshire) who were members of the Church of Englandhttps://register-of-charities. charitycommission.gov.uk/-/charity-details/4422 She was a widow; born Elizabeth Wethered of Ashlyns Berkhamsted will

  There were many young gentlemen that attended the Inns of Court from about  the age 18 without previously attending University. They were used in this period  as a finishing school for young gentlemen many of whom had no intention of becoming lawyers (only 15% were eventually called to the bar. ) Others went at 21 or so having graduated but as I pointed out, a Catholic couldn't go to Oxbridge which makes the average age at entry slightly higher.   See for example

starting with 'was not only would be barristers'https://www.innertemple.org.uk/who-we-are/history/historical-articles/the-inns-of-court-and-inns-of-chancery-and-their-records/

St Omer was a  Jesuit school   for  boys age 10-18.  https://www.jesuit.org.uk/history/timeline

Edit :There is certainly a baptism of a William Brunt on 26 Dec 1601 in Burton on Trent (no Edward in the transcript)

"England, Staffordshire, Church Records, 1538-1944," database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL3V-12PV : 8 July 2020), William Brunt, 26 Dec 1601; citing Baptism, Burton upon Trent, Staffordshire, England, Staffordshire & Stoke on Trent Archive Service, Stafford; FHL microfilm 4,046,576.

Edit 2 Marriage

"England Marriages, 1538–1973", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V52Z-DKB : 12 March 2020), Willi. Brunt, 1624.

There are three wills that may be relevant . Two less likely (Derbyshire) one from Staffordshire in 1668

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?f.collectionId=3491898&q.givenName=William&q.surname=Brunt

These wills should be on Find my Past.

Thank you Helen. 

Here is the also the record regarding Barbara Vincent (Wife of William Brent) this proves that this is not the same William Brent but I believe is the Barbara referred to in the 1936 article whom died in 1685. This also refers to a Elizabeth Brent (Smith) that was also his wife and both Barbara and Elizabeth were 'Heirs at law'. 

Barbara Vincent Will of William Brent d1685 - not the same William Brent

I have also today found a record that Elizabeth Craddock seems to have died in Nottoway Virginia not the UK, which would perhaps explain the lack of a record in the UK! That record also outlines that the same Elizabeth Craddock was the mother of not only William Brunt see reference to Margaret Mary Brent daughter of Elizabeth Craddock and William Brunt so now the records seem to show lots of different things. 

I saw finally the reference to the age of William Brent died in 1691 being 80 years or more all the information I can find in relation to Gray Inns state I can seem to find 

I think that is yet another William Brent probate was granted in 1685.befote William Brent recusant died. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3385172

Its on ancestry as are all pcc wills 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/4328949?mark=7b22746f6b656e223a2270734f57782b747170363974447359704f633054645566424458766b70446f565a765070513662374c30673d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d

At a quick look Barbara and Elizabeth were daughters of his brother Nathaniel. If you read the Nat Archive entry . Barbara Brent had become the wife of William Vincent and Elizabeth the wife of Thomas Smith.

Just seen your edit. Your original question suggested that a  William Brunt of Staffordshire might be the Catholic William Brent. In my opinion   there's no doubt that they were not the same man so I will leave it there.

There were  many Brunts in Staffordshire . Your tree  has many unsourced profiles in later generations. Why not work on getting the earlier generations properly sourced  with primary records before tackling this period when evidence becomes more fragmentary.
Thanks Helen - I have the records from the more modern ones, I just haven't got around to putting them onto wiki tree. But good points and thank you for your time

Thanks for the input on this. I have since discovered a William Brunt entered into a lease in 1311 in an area called the village of Couwicke England - which I can not seem to find. This is the earliest reference to a William Brunt (to find this is remarkable in itself). We remain stuck in trying to determine whom William Brunt baptised 26 Dec 1601 grandparents were. The baptism in 1601 lists a William Brunt and a Winefridae as parents whom have also a marriage record in the same church St Modwins, Burton Upon Trent. They are also listed as parents (with minor name modifications i.e. BruntE) of a Johannes Brunt born 1604 and a Edwardus Brunt b 1615 in the same church register. 

Now this William Brunt tat started this - baptised 1601 died in 1685 I am now reasonably sure is the one that married Elizabeth Craddock in 1624 and went on to have a son William Brunt in 1630, that I am quite sure I am descended from. The proof will come soon with another Brunt man descended from the same being yDNA tested. There are other records in the National Archives that have Brunts in the region being active. In particular a John de Brunte in 1316 as well acting for the Bishop of Durham,

The a Sir John Brunt from 1553 from Hampshire - whom I can not find any more records of anywhere!

Sir John Brunt

Now that I have records of Brunts back for the 1300/1400/1500s I just need to try and bridge the gaps as it were and somehow connect these people. Helen or Gill do you have any ideas how?!

See:

William Brunt 1311 Lease Doc

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