Merge Questionable Gateway Ancestor

+7 votes
251 views
Dame Anne (Ramsden) Childers is currently under Puritan Great Migration Project and Questionable Gateway Ancestors. She married William Childers-10 in Virginia who is currently under US Southern Colonists Project. Need to get together on this.

Also she and her ancestral line have duplicates who need to be merged.

Appreciate anyone interested in this line get in touch with me so we can get it sorted out.
WikiTree profile: Anne Childers
in Genealogy Help by Shirley Dalton G2G6 Pilot (471k points)
I changed the PGM template to Southern Colonies.
Thank you John.

A reminder for all of us:

Puritan Great Migration was to the ''New England'' colonies, and Virginia is a ''Southern Colony'', with a very different set of ancestors, and different motivations and colony organization, than in the New England colonies.

1 Answer

+2 votes
A PGM was marrying in Jamestown in 1617 and dying there in 1622?

But William Childers is supposed to have emigrated after 1626.

And there seems to be a claim that his wife was a Ramsden widow, not a Ramsden by birth.  She'd have to be, to be a Dame.

Susan Meg looks like an attempt to conflate two people.

I think there's a problem with the Waterhouse - Rishworth - Keith link anyway, which defeats the whole object of manufacturing a Ramsden wife.

I've got this bridge for sale...
by RJ Horace G2G6 Pilot (563k points)
edited by RJ Horace
I have to admit these profiles are outside my area. Which is why I am asking for help. I really need to know who the wife of William Childers was. Any help is appreciated.
Seems to start with a court case of 1654 in which the plaintiffs are William Childers and Dame Anne Ramsden, widow of Sir John Ramsden, now the wife of the said William.

Dame used to be the title used by the wife of a knight.  Wasn't too exceptional in such cases for the widow to hang on to the best husband's rank and surname after remarrying downscale.  So far so good.

Col Sir John Ramsden b 1594 mar 1st Margaret Frecheville, had issue.  Mar 2nd 1634 (as 3rd husb) Anne Overton, daughter of Lawrence Overton, widow of George Chamberlain d 1615 and of John Poole.  No issue.  He died Newark 1646, widow living 1648.

Haven't got a positive statement that it was her who married Childers but it seems likely.  In which case I reckon she was too old to have any kids.  She certainly wasn't the mother of Abraham.

Sir John's ancestry has no resemblance to the line we've got.  The line we've got, if it's real, seems to be a whole separate branch of Ramsdens.  In which case I doubt whether this other John was a knight and it would be astounding if he had a daughter who married a Childers.  Of course the court case would then be just an irrelevant coincidence, but that's the only evidence for any Ramsden-Childers connection.

So at this point it looks like we know who William married, but we don't care, because she's got no connection with anybody else here.

There seems to be no evidence that William Childers or his wife was ever in America.  Somebody may be trying to convert a Childe into a Childers.

So was Abraham's father called William, and was he the same William who married Anne Overton, and who was his 1st wife?  No idea, but I'm not taking anything for granted.
 

Apparently Anne's brother is supposed to be the PGM?  Daren't look.
I found the court case, but not the bit about John Ramsden's wives. Thanks for that info. Also found baptismal records for two different Ann Ramsdens in 1606 and 1608, one daughter of Jos. Ramsden and one daughter of George Ramsden.

Don't think William Childers who came to Virginia was the one who married John Ramsden's widow. So she has no right to title of Dame. Assuming she was a Ramsden by birth (a big assumption), I don't think she belongs to the Waterhouse, et al, line. May wind up removing that link; not sure yet. Need more research.
I think I've remembered what the problem was with the Rishworth line.  There were two John Waterhouses, probably cousins.  John of Warley d 1539/40 son of Richard d 1484 mar Agnes Rishworth.

Margaret and Sibyl were the daughters of the other one, John of Skircoat d 1534 son of Robert d 1481.  

That's sad for Margaret and Sibyl, but doesn't affect this line.  It was John of Warley and Agnes who had Robert (2nd or 3rd son) who married Sibyl Savile.

But Robert and Sibyl didn't have a son Richard.

John Ramsden of Bowers in Barkisland married Susan Waterhouse of Mereclough Bottom, daughter of Isabel ___ and Richard W, son of Sibyl ___ and Richard W, parents unknown.

The Waterhouses (from Lincolnshire) had been in the Halifax area for several generations by then, and there are several branches that haven't been connected to the main trunk.  Except on the internet of course.

Robert had a brother Richard of Warley (son and heir of John and Agnes) but he's spoken for.  He married Isabel Savile of New Hall in Elland.

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