Can you help : info re family of Henry Thomas, born 1805 or 6 Orpington, Kent (father Thomas Thomas mother Sarah)?

Question

I'd especially like to know about his first marriage, as he married Ellen Kebbey Bawler in the Battersea Chapel in 1849 and was, according to the marriage certificate, a widower. I think he had lots of brothers and sisters living in the area around Orpington, Chelsfield, Maidstone in Kent, but have not been able to find anything definite. Any help would be appreciated!!

Answer 1

This record gives the date of christening: (Nothing found on first wife)

Name:	Henry Thomas
Gender:	Male
Baptism Date:	29 Dec 1805
Baptism Place:	Orpington,Kent,England
Father:	Thomas Thomas
Mother:	Sarah
FHL Film Number:	992515

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013

Comments

I haven't yet found a maiden name for Sarah.

There is a record [in the Kent Parish records] of a Henry Thomas, father Thomas Thomas and mother Sarah, marrying Hannah Parker 3rd January, 1841 in the district of Bromley, Kent. This would fit quite nicely as our Henry's first marriage, but I haven't found anything yet to confirm that this is our Henry, nor anything regarding the death of Hannah.

Answer 2

Henry Thomas, the son of Thomas Thomas & Sarah had a number of siblings, all Christened Orpington, Kent:

Richard, 10 February 1805,

James, 28 Decemebr 1806,

Sarah, 20 December 1807,

George, 5 February 1809,

Mary, 24 June 1810,

Source: England Birrths & Christenings (1538-1975)

Comments

Another sibling:

 

Henry Thomas born 29 December 1805 at Orpington, Kent, England. Son of Thomas Thomas and Sarah.  FHL 992515 Thomas Thomas born about 1779. Thomas died 1855 Greenwich, Kent, England.

**1841 England Census: Aaron Thomas resident - living with Thomas - aged 20 years at Chelsfield. Born about 1821.

Henry married Ellen Kebbey Bawler 1849 Wandsworth, London. England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915

Arrived Brisbane 17 January 1853. Queensland State Archives; Registers of Immigrant Ships' Arrivals; Series: Series ID 13086; Roll: M1696

 

Ann

 

 

---

Further siblings are traced

Maria, 31 may 1812,

Martha, 6 February 1814,

Harriet, 23 April 1815.

In the timescale posed in the question, a number of Thomas Thomas and Sarah's are noted as parents in Kent - Orpington, Hollingbourne, Ulcombe, Mercham, Leeds...

The 1851 Census for Henry & Ellen lists his birthplace as Hasketon, Kent and of age 40 born 1811. Whilst the 1851 Census was known to be inaccurate on age, and with Henry's untraceable absence from the 1841 Census, coupled with the many parents of like names, from many places in Kent, what evidence is there for an Orpington birthplace?

---

And there are children for a married couple Thomas Thomas and Sarah Thomas christened in Chelsfield, Kent (adjacent to Orpington):

Jane, 1820

Aaron 1821 (this could be of interest as the first child of Henry and Ellen was named Aaron - not a totally uncommon name for the time, but still comparatively rare)

Stephen 1823

Also some for a couple of the same name, christened in Ulcombe, Kent (not far from Orpington and Chelsfield).

Regarding Henry's age: the marriage certificate of Henry and Ellen Bawler gives her age as 28 and his age as 38. This is the same 10 year difference that appears in their entry for the 1851 census. But the passenger list for the "Parsee" (compiled 1852 or 1853) gives Henry's age as 47 and Ellen's as 31.  Henry's death certificate in 1857 gives his age as 53 and states that he was 45 when married to Ellen in 1849. The birth certificate of their second child Henry William Thomas in 1856 gives Henry's age as 50.

Could Henry have been fibbing to Ellen about his age early in their relationship?

All the records we have (not many) give Henry's birthplace as Kent, none give any more specific place name. Other researchers into the family history have given Orpington as his birthplace, but I have not been able to extablish whether this is based on a written record somewhere or on a supposition that the Henry christened in Orpington in 1805 would be the only Henry Thomas (with father Thomas Thomas and mother Sarah Thomas) whose age would fit the other records and that he was also born in Orpington. As Ellen and Henry were assisted passengers to Moreton Bay (on the Parsee, 1852-3), there could be records somewhere regarding this; I don't know yet where to try to locate such records.

---

To Ann: do you have a written record that states that Henry was BORN 29th December, 1805 in Orpington? I can find so far only a record that he was christened on that date in Orpington.

---

This is quite the hunt. Overwhelming. But great work happening here!

---

Marriage certificates normally record both the name & occupation of the couples fathers'. The fact Henry was a widower, is the certificate silent on parentage?

---

Henry and Ellen's marriage certificate (1849) gives Henry's father as Thomas Thomas, a labourer, and Ellen's father as William Bawler, a baker. It doesn't mention mothers. We know from Henry's death certificate that his father was Thomas Thomas and his mother was Sarah (note on the certificate: "maiden name unknown", so Ellen - still alive and present at Henry's death - didn't know her mother-in-law's maiden name, possibly Henry didn't know it either).

I don't yet have the marriage certificate for the marriage of Henry Thomas and Hannah Parker, I have ordered it from the GRO in England, but the online record under the Kent Parish Records gives this Henry's father as Thomas Thomas and his mother as Sarah.

---

This question continues to be intriguing. Perhaps there is a Henry Thomas that should be considered, although  I cannot prove?

 

First, reviewing Thomas Thomas and spouse, Sarah. In Kent between 1790 & 1807, there were only two entries recorded in England Marriages between couples of this name. Unfortunately RC & non conformist marriages cannot be traced. Both entries were 1800: Widen the search throws up couples throughout the UK, with a number in the East London area.

 

The Kent marriages, Thomas Thomas and Sarah Styles, 14 July 1800, Lower Halstow, and a later marriage of a TT to Sarah Beale, 29 December 1800, Maidstone, All Saints.

 

I keep coming back to review the 1841 census of a possible Henry Thomas, living in Northfleet, Kent with his wife Charlotte and a number of children. His birth is listed as c1801. The Ancestry census lists his name as Joy, but that is a transcription error. This is the 1841 census:

 

Joy Thomas 40

Charlott Thomas 40

Wm Thomas 15

Mary Thomas 15

Masha Thomas 15

Ann Thomas 11

Eliza Thomas 7

Amelia Thomas 6

Henry Thomas 13

William Clack 16

 

This Henry married Charlotte Beaumont 14 September 1817, Ifield, Kent.

 

Deaths of a  Charlotte Thomas are noted in 1847, Faversham, and 1850, North Aylesford. 

 

In 1851, Amelia can be found continuing to be living in Northfleet, with siblings. Ann is noted to be head of the family. Other searches In 1851 reveal no trace of Charlotte or Henry. Perhaps worthy of further research?

 

---

I don't have a subscription to ancestry.co.uk, so I can't view the record, but that website says that there is an entry in the 1841 census for a Henry Thomas born in Kent about 1804, which is closer to what I consider to be correct: I think I'd check that out first.