Citation of index and original source, and citation of scan of original source posted to wikitree?

Question

Hi, I am new here, and uploading people gradually. I have lots of questions, but the two I have today are:

First, if you have both an index source (e.g. an entry in a county death certificate index, via an Ancestry database), and a scan of the original source (e.g. an actual reliable copy of the death certificate in question), can/should you enter both as "sources," or only the death certificate itself (with a link to wherever the copy can be obtained if possible)? if you do only enter it once,  can you add a parenthetical referring to the online index? The index may add value in that it summarizes the contents for quick reference (I have been experimenting with copy/pasting index info into a source as a mouseover pop-up title).  

Second, if you upload a copy of a source (e.g. a scan of a death certificate) is there a standard way to refer to it in a citation?

The particular profile I've been working on is John Konkle, below. It is very much a draft/WIP, the family members at top are just placeholders for planned profiles, which I will add once I get a grip on how I want to set them up.  I plan to clean up citations to fit more closely with a standard once I choose one. :)  That said, suggestions welcome.

Answer 1

1. In the case of uploaded photo of the death certificate on the page - do you cite the index? I probably wouldn't. It feels redundant, but it doesn't hurt anything to do so.

2. On the other hand if I'm linking to a picture at Ancestry, where some people won't be able to see it. I might also link to the index at Family Search, which is free.

3. The hover over information, in the profile, is totally cool. WOW. Unfortunately, Wikitree markup is not the same as HTML or Wikipedia markup. So this"<font color=gray>Partial Transcript</font></span>-kr</ref>", even though it works, is not recommended for use at wikitree. A list of recommended tags is here. Sigh! I feel like a party pooper for having said that.

Comments

And I feel like I'm condoning party pooping by endorsing this answer.  I, too, sorely miss the ability to use html tags.  The one I miss the most, I think, is that all text has to be left justified - that just seems so terribly unprofessional to look at.

That said, Anne is absolutely right about the rules, as one might well expect the leader of the Profile Improvement Project to be and I do recognize the need for these rules, much as I regret the crimp they put in my style.

Welcome to WikiTree, Kate - I hope you find it as wonderful a place as I have!

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As a lawyer and  librarian, I have an ingrained appreciation for both the crucial nature of sources and the utility of consistent citation formats. :)

I did most of my research on Ancestry. Until recently I didn't know that much of the same stuff (and more) is also available at FamilySearch. I'll probably do that going forward but sadly I have a LOT of stuff linked at Ancestry still. I tend to upload pictures of certificates but not Census pages since you can get them pretty easily elsewhere.

I'm aware that the "font color" tag is unsupported and was planning on finding an alternative. (I don't really like the look, either, but brackets and such are all in use for other things.)  The bigger issue is that I am misusing the "span title=" tag  ("span" is reserved for creating anchor links). I saw someone using it for translations on another G2G topic (http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/185969/translate-french-word-with-english-that-displays-mouse-over?show=185969#q185969) and liked it, but it might not end up staying. Since the index entries are "optional" (not part of the actual citation) I thought it might pass muster. The same thread has an alternative (put a link to a second page with the info) which I don't like much, as it requires a new window/tab, but if it's unacceptable to abuse span this way, I'll either do that or just add the index as footnotes to the sources (and that is just getting ridiculous!)

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Kate, I have found a few ways to tweak the system so that I can stay within the official "recommended" guidelines, yet still add some pizazz.  Please take a look at the main Holocaust category page to see some of the stuff I've done (click the edit button to see how).  I can also arrange for mouseovers within what we're allowed but it takes a real kludge to do it  I create a graphic with transparent background and the text I want to have the mouseover on, then upload the image to a free space page and put the image inline in the biography, using the "label" parameter for the mouseover text.  If that sounds like Greek to you, please let me know and I'll be happy to translate the technobabble.

OH - I forgot to mention - sticking to exclusively the "recommended" tags is only an absolute requirement for the older profiles.  For immediate family members within 1 generation of ourselves, we are permitted more latitude, although we are still encouraged to stick to the same rules as for everything else.  My own profile is a tongue-in-cheek version of genealogical correctness, but actually - believe it or not - uses only stuff that we are permitted.  I just couldn't resist poking fun at footnotes and source citations a little bit.

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I think I understand your suggestion about the mouseover issues. I created a teeny graphic (the word "more" on a gray background) and it is now the "anchor" for any mouseover text I include in the label attribute. If anything, it's easier than the kludge I was using before :)

Answer 2

Hi Kate, Welcome to WikiTree. Happy to have you here.

I'm at WikiTree since august and I know how hard it is to find and read all at WikiTree. I would love to help you as far as I can. I

I m part of the Dutch Project (I am from the Netherlands) and a starting mentor.

First I m so happy you got you have to add sources for anything at WikiTree. We want to have the right dates and events on the profiles. :)

To your questions and I hope I give you the answers to help: You can just post the sources to indexen. But those links can be changed during time. So it s always nice to upload an image if you have one.  And at images you have to add the source again.

The problem with Ancestry data is they re not accesable for everyone as you have to be a paying-member to see all documents. So images to your profile will solve that. F.i. I m not a paying member at Ancestry.com so the links don t work for me. It will only tell me I can become a member :).

Just think you make these profiles for people that will look at your profiles in 200 years. Mabey your or your family ancestors. They must be able to find the sources back.

To see how links are made you might wanna look into someones (my) editing page of a profile to see how things are written and posted.

The way I do is one way. There are many ways to do. You will find yourself a way in a couple of time that fits to you.

Kind regards from the Netherlands,

Astrid

Comments

:D Good work Kate, I had a look at your profile.

There are few things you can change and I would love to lead you if you like.

Did you already find the helpmenu at the right top of your page. If you choose the helpindex from the menu it s easy to find help on many topics. Like http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Sources.

Thank you Kate.

Answer 3

I am doing Swedish genealogy most of the time. Some smart person has created a template --> we add the data from the source into the template and you get an easy way to understand more about the source and also if you have the client software Arkiv Digital installed you can open the original photo of the church book. 

I have spoken with Arkiv Digital and it's ok to also upload a screen capture from the book --> I add a <ref name="xxxx">zzzzzz</ref>

And in the caption of the picture I add <ref name="xxxx"/>

Which means the reference will have to references and the user can understand that the fact where the citation is used is also on the screen capture

 

See profile http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Brandt-911

Answer 4

Small comment 

I would "hide" the URLS

[url text]

see http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Adding_Links#Links_to_Other_Websites

Comments

Thanks, good suggestion. I tend to leave them in case people print the page out (I love the Web and technology but I'm not a digital native!) but these can be ridiculously long and frame-breaking.

Answer 5

Kate, 

You're going to receive different opinions about this. Personally, if I have a death certificate, I don't bother also citing the index. But others here prefer to cite everything. 

Wikitree encourages us to include a citation when we upload a document. I follow (more or less) Evidence Explained for citation formatting. Bottom line: provide sufficient information to help someone assess the validity of a source and to be able to find it themselves.

Thanks for adding source information!

Comments

Thanks! I just got ahold of Evidence Explained (whoa, university flashbacks) and plan to use it as a resource.