PPP needed for some historically significant profiles

+5 votes
213 views
in Genealogy Help by Danielle Liard G2G6 Pilot (254k points)
retagged by Liz Shifflett
Hi Danielle - I protected them, but...

1) Several have an incorrect LNAB. I adopted the two orphaned ones with "De" in the LNAB field.*

2) None have a project box. Although most have a template or a category that gives a hint as to why they were protected, none had a project box that I saw. Please add the appropriate project (for the ones with the correct LNAB, you can delete my notes when you do).

* EuroAristo guidelines exclude prepositions from the LNAB field, so by those standards all of the profiles with "De" or "de" in the LNAB field need to be unprotected & corrected. Other projects allow prepositions in the LNAB field, but that it should be lowercased (i.e., de not De). Since these profiles are not yet identified to a project, I don't know whether the correct LNAB would include "de" or not.

The Acadians Project has guidelines, but from what I can tell excludes prepositions. The Quebecois Project does not have published guidelines, so I believe they would follow EuroAristo guidelines (which would mean 4 out of 7 of the profiles listed above should not be protected, since their LNAB field is incorrect).

Could you check with the appropriate project to determine what the LNAB field should be & post the answer here (or contact me directly).

Thanks!
Hmm, Liz, the name field guidelines have several points that are conflicting with what I know of usage in records for the era.  The ''particules'' (what these are called) ''de, des or du'' were considered part of their names, and denoted noble birth when written that way originally.  de Bermen, de Lauson.  Not capitalized in any record I have seen.  And when you consult baptisms of noble offspring, the name gets written 'de Blah', and not just 'Blah'.  The particule was retained.  Many of them evolved in time to become connected.  Some got dropped, particularly after the French revolution.  As time passed also, they got used more and more by people who were not of noble origin, like the 'dit' names des Rosiers and du Tremble, which both evolved to become Desrosiers and Dutremble.  The place name in Québec, Lauzon, was actually named after the two ''de Lauson'' who were lords of the area.  Notice that the particule is dropped there, because that belonged to a person, not a place.

The guide also says we should have only one name in the first name field.  But so so so many girls got called Marie X, boys Joseph X, and that was their full names.  I come across profiles where the name entered is Marie, and Louise for example is entered in the middle name field.  That is simply wrong.  When you consult the records, their names are either written out Marie Louise, or else either one is dropped, so they use Marie or Louise by itself (which shows up normally in preferred name field).  Some took another totally different name as their fantasy suited them.  Some members hyphenate the two names: Marie-Louise, which can get around the single name requirement, but factually does not reflect usage of the time.  Hyphenation of names is fairly modern usage.

The third point is on the statement that women generally took their husband's last name.  This is not true of the French settlers and their descendants at all until the conquest, and even then most records to this day list the woman under her 'maiden' name, unless it was not known.  See http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/199892/proper-treatment-married-women-settled-france-17%2618-century?show=200038#c200038 for a discussion on this subject.

There's another point in there I find a bit conflicted:

PREFIX FIELD: This is for a title such as 'Sir' or 'Reverend'. A man who was knighted was called Sir. Do not use this field for long titles, such as 'Earl of Angus'. Titles such as that belong in the 'Other Nickname' field. Don’t use this field for ‘King’, ’Duke’, ‘Lady’. For medieval and earlier profiles, ‘Sir’ or 'St" are almost the only acceptable uses of the prefix field
TITLES: Titles do not go in prefix or suffix fields. They go in the biography. However, what people were called (King of England, Duc d'Angoulême, Lord Mountbatten, the Fat) belongs in the OTHER NICKNAMES field.

I have come across profiles where the other last name field reads something like ''Sieur de Repentigny''.  Since Sieur is a title and not a name, I remove it and put it in prefix field, leaving 'de Repentigny' as the other last name.  I find the directive to put titles in the nickname field odd.  It's not a nickname, any more than Sir is.  Why the difference in treatment?

As a note, in French, the St before another name is hyphenated, always when it is a name of a person who is not the original saint.  Goes for place names even more.  So you have the original person, Saint Louis (Louis number 11 king of France).  Then you have Pierre so and so dit St-Louis.  Hyphenated, always, no period after the St, I totally agree with that one, although oodles of profiles have a period on them, very annoying when doing a search.  And place names that bear the name of a person also are always hyphenated:  island named St-Jean is hyphenated, Jacques-Cartier place is hyphenated (the hyphen differentiates from the actual Jacques Cartier).

I realize I may be rambling all over the place here, but since I like accuracy, I think the style guide needs to be reviewed.  As a suggestion, maybe the tech folks can see if they can get the program to ignore spaces within a name box, so that when doing a search for ''Marie Louise'' so-and-so, it will not throw up every girl whose name starts with Marie and the last name so-and-so.  Would help tremendously on searches.
Oh and on the project tagging for these profiles, we're actually trying to figure out what the Québécois project should actually be named, and what period it should cover.  So still trying to figure out what would be appropriate projects for these.  But they are definitely of historic significance.
I think the style guidelines as they are serve WikiTree as a whole very well, with the flexibility for projects to develop guidelines that address specifics such as you detail in your post. Sounds like you have the makings of project-specific naming guidelines :D

PPP is used primarily to protect the correct LNAB. Based on your response, I'll change the ones I can to be lowercase "de".
So, one of my ancestors got made baron in France and I put that title in the prefix field.  He was not made baron of any specific place, he already had the name Jean Baptiste Guyard de Fleury before then.  Do I have to remove the title from the prefix box then?  That part really makes no sense to me.  I can see not putting something like 'Earl of Angus' all in that box, wouldn't fit anyways, but Earl should be in the box and Angus in other last names box, to my way of thinking.  Thoughts?
of all the tags I fit in, EuroAristo wasn't one of them, and I think the guideline you're referring to is specific to that project. The general WikiTree guidelines say that titles go in the prefix field, with a footnote that refers to EuroAristo guidelines:

Prefix

This is for a name prefix or title[2] such as Mrs, Sir, Dr, Gov, Sgt, etc.

[2] If a title cannot be properly paired with the Proper First Name at birth it should not be used in the Prefix field. Instead, it should be part of the Preferred First Name or Nicknames. For example, King is not an appropriate Prefix for George VI because his Proper First Name at birth was Albert and he cannot be called King Albert. See Name Fields for European Aristocrats.
Hmm, in that case the profiles this discussion started with are a question mark, most of them start as European aristos, but come to New France and die there, so does the rule for that project carry over across the big pond?

Oh and my ancestor came here among the troops around 1740, went back to France after the conquest, got made baron there, and then came back again to the colony and took up his functions pre-conquest again but under the English, he was notary and sometimes judge.  How's that for a convoluted addition?  :D
Danielle - what an amazing, informative post, thank you so much!

1 Answer

+4 votes
Excuse me, what is PPP?
by Anna Custard G2G Crew (590 points)
Project Protected Profile,  Welcome to the alphabet soup!
Hi Anna! See http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project_protection for more info about PPP. Cheers, Liz
Thank you! I now know how civilians felt when I used so many acronyms after my discharge from service. hehehehe
Thanks!

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