Emperor Otto I

+9 votes
323 views

Dabbling around the Holy Roman Empire again because I have a few minutes and no access to my own source material.

Otto (Ottonian) Holy Roman Empire is the name on the profile, Otto (Otto I) "the Great, Kaiser des Heiligen Römischen Reiches (Liudolfinger), Liudolfinger, of Sachsen Italy and Germany" Holy Roman Empire formerly Ottonian is what the WikiTree way of naming makes of it.

Now, judging from these entries and keeping in mind general WikiTree style guides (Use their conventions instead of ours) one should conclude that they all spoke English, those Holy Roman Emperors and German and Italian Kings. According to the biography this is the top level profile. Couldn't we do a little better with respect to the name?

Next, he was supposedly born in Wallhausen, Landkreis Mansfeld-Südharz, Thüringische Mark, Sachsen-Anhalt, Ostenfrankenreich, Germany. Wikipedia, FMG, the Henry Project, all list his birth place as unknown. Shouldn't we expect from a top level profile to have sources for such locations? (Apart from the fact that the Landkreis Mansfeld-Südharz came into being only on July 1, 2007, and Sachsen-Anhalt on July 21, 1947. The same applies to his death, the Burgenlandkreis did not exist before 1994.)

WikiTree profile: Otto I Liudolfinger
in Policy and Style by Helmut Jungschaffer G2G6 Pilot (544k points)

1 Answer

+1 vote
Helmut I agree about the place name changes.

Until there started to be some consistency in how names, both first and family names were written it is always difficult to really use 'their conventions instead of ours'  though Otto seems to be standard in the early chronicles.

Would Liudolfinger be better as his Last Name at Birth (LNAB)?  Not sure what to suggest as his Current Last Name, though I agree that Holy Roman Empire doesn't look right.
by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (481k points)
edited by John Atkinson

The German literature refers to them as Liudolfinger "also known as Ottonen after the coronation of Otto I as emperor." In fact, the German Wikipedia refers directly to the Liudolfinger article if you search for Ottonen. Charles Cawley calls them Liudolfinger. My inclination would be to stick with Liudolfinger and use Ottonen as aka name.

The Holy Roman Empire is tricky. At its largest it included besides the German speaking areas Northern Italy, Savoy, Burgundy, Bohemia, The Netherlands, and a few smaller areas like Slovenia and some Polish areas. The official language used for documents was Latin, the Golden Bull of 1356 is the first document listing other quasi-official languages: it directed the ruling families to make sure that their members be trained next to their native German in Latin and Czech (Wherefore we decree that the sons, or heirs and successors of the illustrious prince electors, namely of the king of Bohemia, the count palatine of the Rhine, the duke of Saxony and the margrave of Brandenburg-since they are expected in all likelihood to have naturally acquired the German language, and to have been taught it from their infancy,-shall be instructed in the grammar of the Italian and Slavic tongues, beginning with the seventh Year of their age. so that, before the fourteenth year of their age, they may be learned in the same according to the grace granted them by God., article 31, http://avalon.law.yale.edu/medieval/golden.asp). May be the best solution is to use the local language of the person in question, in this case Heiliges Römisches Reich.

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