Hypothesis: Guillaume David was a Martinique Slave Master during the years 1680 to 1698

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I have discovered new Information that has yet to be (to my knowledge) researched or discussed by genealogists and David family researchers.   Can this potential lead be followed up by others?

Guillaume David and Marie Armand have an interesting history as shown by his several court appearances, and his numerous residences in New France (Quebec, Trois Rivière and Sorel) during the years 1657 to 1678 as well as their frequent trips to New Netherland (New York) via the Hudson Valley.

However, after 1679 they appear to have fallen off the face of the world and their residences are only alluded to by the residence of their children in Kingston, Newton, Philipsburg Manor, and Tarrytown. The last encounter we can be certain of was in 1679 when Guillaume met Rene Poupart dit Lafleur on the shores of Lake Champlain described in a letter by Poupart (references for all the above can be obtained from the 2 articles published by the New York Genealogical and Biographical Record 1991 and 1992).

While searching the Internet, I came across a reference to Jacques David, Guillaume’s eldest son. The search led me to an article called Lot no.23, Ile du Fort.  The site describes the owners of the Lot 23 in the St. Francois-du-lac region of Quebec.  There is a reference there to the arrest of Jacques David and René Faure (who owned Lot. No. 23) for smuggling furs to New Netherland. http://saint-francois-du-lac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Lot-23.pdf?d8e5da . This is a new site to the Internet dated December 21, 2015.

The author provides some illuminating information (in French) on Jacques and his troubles with the civil authority but also has a passing reference to Guillaume David:

<<Guillaume David était à la Martinique en 1680 avec la Compagnie du Sieur Roy, capitaine du quartier du Prêcheur. « 59. Caze de Guillaume David  63 ans, Marie Hermant (Herman) sa femme 61 ans, Marie David fille 12 ans, 3 nègres de 21 à 46 ans, 2 négresses de 61 à 70 ans>>

Page 278, chapitre "Rolle et Dénombrement de la Compagnie de Sieur Roy capitaine du Cartier du Prescheur 1680, extrait de l'ouvrage Personnes et familles à la Martinique au XVIIe siècle d'après recensements et terriers nominatifs, tome I, par Jacques Petit-Jean Roget et Eugénie Bruneau-Latouche, Éditions Desormeaux Books, Paris, 2000.

 I translate this as such:

<<Guillaume David was in Martinique in 1680 with the Company of Sieur Roy, Captain of the Le Prescheur Quarter :   Lot #59 of Guillaume David 63, years and Marie Hermant ( Herman) his wife of 61 years, Marie David , daughter, 12 years old, 3 negro men between 21 and 46 years of age, 2 negro women 61 and 70 years old. >>

 

 The above information is form the Census of 1680 of the island of Martinique which can be found on page 282 https://books.google.ca/books?id=3a0wWQohwHIC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

I also searched the Parish Registers of Le Prescheur from 1680 to 1720 and found one reference of note.  Marie’s death is noted in the Parish Register of 7 June 1698:

« Marie Harman, femme de Guillaume David 70 âgé de 70 ans, décédé le 7 juin 1698  et a été enterre dans l’église.   A. Chartier, jésuite. « 

My translation: Marie Harman, wife of Guillaume David aged 70 years, deceased the 7 of June 1698 and was buried in the church A. Chartier, Jesuit.

http://anom.archivesnationales.culture.gouv.fr/caomec2/resultats.php?tri=annee&territoire=MARTINIQUE&commune=LE+PRECHEUR&typeacte=AC_DE&theme=&annee=&debut=&fin=&vue=&rpp=20&page=2

These findings lead to question I would appreciate the help of professional and amateur genealogists to help answer.

  1. Are we speaking about the same Guillaume and Marie who lived in New France and New Netherland and New York?   So far no one seems to have found their whereabouts after 1679 other than a cryptic notarial contract  reference that in 1711 they were “of  La Rochelle” (Ct 26-10-1711 LePailleur) . “Of La Rochelle” could mean he was born there or he was residing there.

 

  1. Guillaume was a known adventurer with his travels in the Hudson Valley, and as a guide and interpreter with Capitaine De Lusigny when he safely escorted English captives to Fort Orange in 1678.    The 1679 reference of his meeting with Rene Poupart dit Lafleur   is also intriguing because it says that Guillaume reported that French men were being deported to the Caribbeans by the new English governors. Were Guillaume and Marie deported? Or did they take the next big step  in their lives and decide to move to Martinique which was according to certain records mainly populated with French Huguenots, and a with a growing slave trade that could make them rich for once in their lives.

 

  1. The ages given for Guillaume and Marie in the 1680 census are problematical.   In 1680 Guillaume is noted as being 61 (b. 1617) and Marie as 61 (born in 1619). They would seem too old to be our Guillaume and Marie, however at her death her age is noted as 70 meaning she was born circa 1628 and not 1619. If given Guillaume is given the same age difference,  he was born 9 years later than the census noted  or in 1626 which is within the age range that is generally accepted (In 1659 at his Confirmation in Quebec his age is listed as 23 i.e.  b. 1636).  A birth year of 1626 seems more reasonable than 1636 if his bother Claude was born in 1621 and his purported bother Jacques born in 1631.

 

in Genealogy Help by

Guillaume David was NOT a Slave Master in Martinique. Hypothesis proven wrong.

In early 2016 I postulated that Guillaume David and Marie Armand may have moved to Martinique circa 1679 because their names show up in the population Census of 1681 in Le Precheur, Martinique at this time.

With the help of distant cousin Gary David who obtained a document entitled: Personnes et familles à la Martinique au XVIIe siècle ( Jacques Petitjean Roget, Eugène Bruneau-Latouche, Editions Desormeaux, 2000 - Martinique - 757 pages) the speculation that this was the same Guillaume and Marie is proven false.

The Guillaume David from Martinique is noted as a son of Jean David and Anne LeGirot. His occupation was a Mason. This Guillaume was born in 1617 and was first married Jeanne Lanquestier who came from Antigua and who died in 1669 in Martinique.  His eldest child was Henriette born in 1649 in St. Christopher.  After Jeanne’s death he married in 1671 Marie Armand or Harmen the widow of Pierre Armand. Marie’s maiden name is not listed.

Since we know that our Guillaume David was in New France from 1659 to at least 1679, it is impossible to consider him the same Guillaume who was living in the Caribbeans during the same time period.

Would a death record in Martinique really list a woman's surname as her first husband's and not her own, when it clearly states she was married to Guillaume David?  Most other French records do not from that time period.  Just curious, since it is so coincidental here and Martinique was not that big -but certainly possible.

3 Answers

+1 vote
 
Best answer
Hello. Through my mother, I descend from Guillaume, Jacques, Jacques II,  Jacques III, Jean-Baptiste, Louis-François-Basile, Joseph-Pierre, Églantine (my maternal great-grandmother).

Guillaume David & Marie Herman (Armand)'s daughter Madeleine, born in Quebec Feb 15 1666, married (second husband) Jean Poussard Bonapetit on Nov 8 1711 in Montreal. The probable reason for the mention of Guillaume David on Oct. 26 1711 in a Lepailleur (Royal notary in Montreal) contract would be as father of Madeleine. It doesn't mean that he was physically there, unfortunately.

Regarding the burial record of June 7 1698, my old computer does not support new versions of Java, so does not allow me to see the Martinique records. But from the French that you copied, and knowing that the Jesuits were scholars and very rarely made grammatical errors, the entry is all in the masculine gender. "âgé de", "décédé le" et "enterre (enterré?) le" would all indicate that the deceased was male (Guillaume?). Marie could be a witness?
by
selected by Nina Knowles
Carole Roger-Comtois;

I would appreciate any information you may have or obtain on the David family.  I have back to

Julien David b.1175
+1 vote
This is good information, and new to me. I believe we're talking about the same Davids, Guillaume & Marie, in Quebec in 1657. I always wondered where they came from and just maybe Martinique is it? I had contact with a reputable genealogist from Michigan, Suzanne Sommerville, some time ago and she was under the belief that: Jacques is NOT a brother, Guillaume might have been a spy and he didn't go to La Rochelle France but went back to NY. She had a copy of the actual record. .I have some info regarding these Davids and would be willing to share. Please feel free to contact me any time. I have spent a lot of time in France trying to verify any connection there and it was all futile. The Famille David, Pravieux that floats around is just not verifiable.

I am a 8th generation down from Guillaume and my grandson is a 10th!

Contact me any time.

G David, Maine
by G David G2G Rookie (230 points)

Hi G,

Nice to know I have some cousins in Maine. Are you related to Mary Obert of MA?  I had some correspondence with her a few years back.  I had not heard the theory that he might have been a French spy. He had a colorful history already.   The letter from Poupart  to the French King when he was in the Lake Champlain Region has always intrigued me.  How did a low class Coureur de Bois from Quebec end up in a French Merchant’s dining room with the English Governess of Manhattan and that she passed on information to him…   add to that that he appeared to have frequent trips up and down the Hudson; he spoke French and most likely English and Dutch and probably some Indian dialect since he had accompanied a French officer a year or so earlier from Quebec to Boston to bring back English captives that the Iroquois had sold to the French.

I would love to hear more about your discoveries. Contact me at micheldavid1565@gmail.com

I am also a descendant of Guillaume  (Guillaume, Jacques, Jacques, Jean-Baptiste, Joseph, Jean-Marie, Moise, Hormidas, Joseph, Leo, Michel). 

+1 vote

Sorry, I forgot to address your hypothesis. Guillaume David was not a slave master.

In a Nov 14 1679 letter, the Seigneur de Saurel wrote to Duchesneau: : « Les Français n'ont plus liberté de commerce à Orange, où, dès leur arrivée, on les envoie à Manate et de là à la Barbade ».

(translation: The French no longer have liberty of commerce in Orange (another name for New Holland) where, as soon as they arrive, they are sent to Manate and from there to Barbados)

On the 1680 Census of  Parish Le Prescheur, Martinique, we find them working for the Sieur Roy :

« 59. Caze de Guillaume David 63 ans, Marie Hermant (Herman) sa femme 61 ans, Marie David fille 12 ans, 3 nègres de 21 à 46 ans, 2 négresses de 61 à 70 ans », "Rolle et Dénombrement de la Compagnie de Sieur Roy capitaine du Cartier du Prescheur 1680.

They were living with, or very near, the slaves. A "caze" was usually a hut, not a house. There seem to be errors in the ages of all concerned. In 1680, Guillaume would be 48 years old and Marie Herman would be 38. They had 2 married daughters (Marguerite and Madeleine). There is no record of a daughter born between 1666 and 1672. There is, however, a Marie-Angélique, born in 1678, who would have been two, not twelve, in 1680. So the entry could have been "1-2 ans."

What I am looking for in Martinique is the marriage record of Marie / Angélique David, daughter of Guillaume David and Marie Herman. She must have married her first husband in Martinique. The only marriage I found for her is in Sleepy Hollow (Tarrytown NY) in 1708, when she was already thirty years old, after she left Martinique to reunite with her brothers and sister.

Any help will be appreciated.

by
Guillaume David and Marie Armand's daughter Marie-Angelique was married to Paulus Rutan in 1708, New Dutch Church, Tarrytown, New York, English Colonies.  Marie Armand is listed as a Fille a Marier.  www.migrations.fr
Hi Susan. As I said, I already have Marie-Angélique's marriage in 1708, but she was 30 years old then and there has to be a previous marriage because girls married very young back then. That first marriage would have most likely occurred in Martinique and that is the one I am looking for.

The Davids are probably the most interesting family in my genealogy. I have them dating back to the medieval times in France, thanks to one of my French contacts. We have proven filiation since the 1100's

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