Lothringen - Frankreich and German Roots for Alsace-Lorraine

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One of my ancestral lines traces back to Lothringen - perhaps better known in English as the Lorraine province of France.

I am not well versed in genealogical resources for this area, nor much of the specific history of this region beyond what I have refreshed for myself on wikipedia a little while back

It's my understanding that these lines were culturally germanic - and they spoke German dialects.

In any case I'd be interested in

a) advice on how to interpret and approach the topic

b) whether / how "German Roots Project" addresses Germans with origin in Lothringen and Elsass/Alsace

c) how does one determine whether specific people/families in these regions were of one cultural group or the other (given that some families may have become Francophone  in later generations)?   And how distinct (culturally) might they have been lets say between 1650-1850?
in Genealogy Help by Michael Maranda G2G6 Mach 7 (70.9k points)

1 Answer

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Hi

This region was always a border region between Latinoid speaking regions to the West and Germanoid speaking peoples to the east since Julius Caesar first conquered the area for the Romans c. 54 BC.  Previous to that, it was a border region for Celtic tribes and Germanic tribes.  After about 405 AD, Germanic tribes flooded the region, and it remained Germanic speaking even after the division in 843 AD of the Frankish Empire into "French" and "Germanic" states.

Starting around 1477, France began to advance eastwards at the expense of the Holy Roman Empire, which is what the Germanic part of the old Frankish empire had evolved into. This trend accelerated especially after the Thirty Year's War (1618-1648) which saw the HRE fragmented into many smaller states.  Later, French was taught in the schools of what is now the French province of Lorraine, but I have met a young lady from there who spoke a German dialect.  As a border region, the people would have been influenced by both of the neighboring lands, with nearby Luxemburg being an example of a place which has its own language, built with components of both French and German.

 The area has changed hands several times during the last couple of hundred years, corresponding to the fortunes of war of Germany and France.

I would think that this is not an easy question to answer.  What would influence my thinking would be what language was spoken at home, what their names were (spelling and roots of last names, French or German variants i.e. "Louis" vs. "Ludwig" "Henri" vs. "Heinrich").  One can easily wonder if it really matters at all, and it probably would hang on which army your ancestors joined in the numerous wars fought over the place.
by Dan Sparkman G2G6 Mach 2 (25.5k points)
selected by Living Troy

Last names are probably more important than first names with respect to cultural back ground. The following link is to a map of languages/dialects spoken there in the 19th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace#/media/File:Alsace_Dialects.PNG

Today French is the dominant language even for the previously German speaking population due to French language policies. 74% of the over 60 population speak Elsässisch, only 3% of 3 - 17 year olds do.

 

Thank you for the reply!  This is an area of some uncertainty for me.

For my line - my ancestor (nee Daniel) from Moselle - came to Buffalo & Williamsville area of western NY - with a significant number of kin .   

In Buffalo, my ancestor married a man (Granacher)  from Baden, and her origin was specified as Frankreich.  It could be that is how her husband called it  - or it could be how she would have named it, or maybe how the Catholic officiant would have understood it based on his own heritage.  But that they found each other suitable makes me think they were of German cultural heritage, anyway.

Buffalo Catholic cemeteries, if I understand correctly include a grouping "United French and German Cemeteries" - (united against other ethic groups ?  or united versus non-Catholics? )  - but that's a tangent.
Thank you too, Helmut - I will check to see if there is similar map for Lorraine province.   Among the surnames in my line from this area:  Daniel, Turscher/Tourscher, Ordner/Ordener, Fuss, Penra/Penrad, Bourg.
Historically most people were German speaking except for some border areas to France. I have a Schneider from Lothringen who came to Quebec as a French soldier in the 18th century, changed his name to Tailleur and married into long established French Canadian families. Descendants later migrated to Michigan and changed their name to Taylor.
United German and French Cemetery was probably named that because it was more economically feasible to run if they merged their operations. I believe Mount Calvary Catholic Cemetery probably owns it now. It is not too far from where I went to elementary school.

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