sorting out the parents of Jane (Croft) Darell (Croft-76)

+8 votes
191 views

Input would be welcome pertaining to a proposed merge of Richard Croft (Croft-500) into Sir Richard Croft, Sheriff of Herefordshire (Croft-22). Croft-500 is the father of Jane Croft (Croft-76) who marries Sir Edward Darell. But the following books  http://tinyurl.com/h4tovw4 see footnote regarding children, and http://tinyurl.com/jzkhw5u (here Jane is called Alice, who was actually Sir Edward's 3rd and surviving wife) show Sir Edward's father-in-law as Croft-22. History of Parliament and Burke's commoners call her Jane the daughter of Sir Richard Croft. The Wiki entry for Elizabeth Darrell (1513-1556) has her as Jane also, though another source [Hall's Society in the Elizabethan Age, p. 185 has a pedigree in which she is Mary Croft (possibly because Darell's 2nd wife was a Mary). Can someone sort this out? Perhaps move Jane to Croft-22? Or is it necessary to do a merge? Croft-500 has for wife an "Elynor Bare" whereas Sir Richard Croft married Eleanor Cornwall, daughter of Elizabeth Barre. I can find no source for any Eleanor Bare.

WikiTree profile: Jane Darell
in Genealogy Help by Monica Edmunds G2G6 Mach 2 (27.3k points)
retagged by Robin Lee
The Merge Rejection form, instead of just a blank message box, should have a list of standard messages to select from.

One of them could be along the lines of "Sorry, I don't know who my profile is supposed to be, and obviously nobody else can know who I don't have in mind, so nothing can ever happen here"
So what happens when unsourced profiles conflict with sourced ones? Is it possible to somehow disconnect them from the loop and replace them if a merge is turned down?

1 Answer

0 votes
Logically .... Croft-500 is far more "likely" to be the one as his place of birth, Ramsbury, Wiltshire is "just down the road" from Darrells "Littlecote"..... BUT, as we all know... that is by no means solid evidence.
by Mike Edwards G2G3 (3.6k points)
How relevant is where he was born? If Croft 22 was the father-in-law of Sir Edward Darell it doesn't matter where he was born, it's the family relationship that counts. He could have born anywhere.

Not that we actually seem to have any data on where either of them were born, assuming they are two people, which I believe is not the case.

I might add that I have not come across even one reference to a Richard Cornwall of Ramsbury in documented sources. He seems to exist only in unsourced family pedigrees copied from one another.

However I have come across another source (House of Commons: http://tinyurl.com/jan5ecq) which says that Sir Edward's wife was “Jane, da. of Sir Richard Croft of Croft Castle."

Also, she is mentioned in Sir Richard's own bio (Croft-22).

I had looked at that also, but the author acknowledges with his little symbol of a "cross", that research does not confirm that relationship.   If you look at the webpage that represents this book.  http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/darrell-sir-edward-146566-1530

While we have no proof of parents yet, the lack of mention of June in "preferred" sources like Burkes Peerage when discussing Richard of Crofts Castle, and the distinctly different places associated with the two fathers in question, lead me to lean towards that fact that she is the daughter of Richard Crofts of Wiltshire and not that of Richard of Hertfordshire.

 

Every source we have shows her as daughter of Sir Richard Croft, banneret and/or Sir Richard Croft of Croft Castle, which is the same thing. The citation which calls her "Jane da. of Sir Richard Croft of Croft Castle, Herefs." should not be dismissed in favour of no source at all. The cross means the member's details have not been entered yet, not that the relationship is dubious. Given that her husband was the chamberlain of Queen Catherine of Aragon and was an influential man of the court, and based much of the time in London, it would be very strange for his wife to be the daughter of a local Wilts. man we can find no records of whatsoever -- a complete blank. Also, her husband's niece married the son of Sir Richard Croft of Croft Castle, so the family connection was certainly there. (I have posted half a dozen or so of these sources already.) 

On the other hand, I have hunted for hours and have found not even one source that shows her as daughter of a Crofts of Wiltshire. So far as I can see, the man exists only in unsourced online trees. Which is not good enough for Wikitree! Someone carelessly put him on a tree years ago and he has been copied over and over without question ever since.  If anyone can find enough reasonable sources for a Wiltshire Jane to weigh against a Herefordshire one, great, let's weigh them up. So far there is nothing.

I forgot to point out that it is probably no coincidence that the conjectural and unsourced parents just happen to have the same christian names as the ones in the sourced citations. And that Eleanor's surname just happens to be the same as that of Eleanor Cornwall's mother. It looks suspiciously like a bad copying job. But we will probably never know because trying to find the origin of a mistake in an online family tree is just about impossible. I do know that they have been floating around a long time. I think I even copied them into my own tree 15 or 20 years ago when I was just getting started and too eager to check things. It has taken years of Ged-Med, buying wills, digging through ipms, etc. to weed a lot of that stuff out.

Good one on Geni

https://www.geni.com/people/Sir-Richard-Croft-the-Elder-Kt/6000000006444239815

where I found this

http://www.archive.org/stream/visitationofhere00cookrich#page/20/mode/2up

Incorrectly describes Croft's wife Elynor [Cornwall] as daughter of Sir John Bare.  She was actually his niece.  His daughter Isabel Countess of Devon survived her kids and his sister Elizabeth Barre was one of the co-heiresses.

Interestingly, Sir Richard had a younger brother also called Richard.  Not that it helps, except it explains the mysterious Alice.  The other Richard had a daughter Alice, who married a Rodney.

 

 

For interest's sake, as Richardson always says, the following Gateway Immigrants are descended from Elynor Bare:

Thomas and Henry Batte

(Royal Ancestry 2013 - not in earlier books)
Thanks RJ, helps a lot!
Don't know how to make this comment "best answer" but it seems to fit the bill!

Thank you so much, Horace, for finding this! I missed it because I tend to avoid online trees as being a waste of time. But unlike most, this has a lot of data.

And now we can see where the error crept in (Bare instead of Cornwall). I'll propose the merge again and hope it gets considered this time.

Related questions

+4 votes
0 answers
107 views asked Mar 13, 2017 in Genealogy Help by Monica Edmunds G2G6 Mach 2 (27.3k points)
0 votes
2 answers
113 views asked Dec 20, 2019 in The Tree House by Simon Croft G2G Rookie (270 points)
+4 votes
5 answers
215 views asked Jul 26, 2019 in Genealogy Help by C. Mackinnon G2G6 Pilot (260k points)
+1 vote
1 answer
63 views asked Aug 7, 2020 in The Tree House by Kellie Croft G2G Rookie (190 points)
+1 vote
1 answer
52 views asked Apr 16, 2020 in Genealogy Help by anonymous
+1 vote
2 answers
+7 votes
3 answers
63 views asked Aug 22, 2015 in Genealogy Help by Judy Smith G2G2 (2.5k points)
+4 votes
1 answer
346 views asked Feb 4, 2013 in Genealogy Help by anonymous
+4 votes
1 answer
+9 votes
1 answer
292 views asked Aug 5, 2017 in The Tree House by Lynden Rodriguez G2G6 Mach 2 (23.9k points)

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright

...