Can you locate explanation of maiden name of Mary wife of Joseph Churchill

+5 votes
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It may be explained by A. W. Ackerman, NEHGR vol 80 p 331 according to a footnote by Boyd R. Churchill in Leonard Hubbard Churchill. Currently the profile of Mary Catlin-46 is connected BUT it looks like she is the wife of --- Burnham.

WikiTree profile: Joseph Churchill
asked in The Tree House by Sheila x G2G6 Mach 2 (25.1k points)

4 Answers

+2 votes
 
Best answer
"Memoirs of Deceased Members of the New England Historic Genealogical Society." Prepared by Rev. Arthur Wilmot Ackerman, D.D. Historian. "1923 Charles Jackson North." NEHGR Vol 80 p 331.

Josiah Churchill & Elizabeth Foote. "Their son, Joseph Churchill of Wethersfield, was born 2 December 1649, married Mary Toucey, and died 1 April 1699."
answered by Anne B G2G6 Pilot (951k points)
selected by Sheila x
PS. I never trust the Cutter books. They always need corroboration with records.
Thanks everyone for providing responses to my question. Anne, Thanks for this info from NEHGS vol 80.  I wonder to which deceased member it applies, perhaps 1 of the authors of the following book. There are 2 books "The Genealogy and biography of the Connecticut branch of the Churchill family in America" by Samuel Joseph Churchill publ Lawrence, KS, 1901 and "The Churchill Family in America" complied by Gardner Asaph Churchill, Nathaniel Wiley Chuchill and George M. Bodge, publ by the family of Gardner A. Churchill, date 1904 handwritten.

The 1901 books says Joseph marr Mary Toucey May 13, 1674, without any further into on Mary. The 1904 books says "married at Wethersfield, May 13, 1674, Mary --- ... long and diligent search has not brought to light the surname ... She survived him and lived to advanced age. She is mentioned as "Widow Mary, Senior," in the settlement of her son's Nathaniel's estate, April 2, 1728."

So I plan in time to replace the wife Mary Catlin-46 with a Mary Toucey or similar spelling but if someone else wants to proceed to do so that is fine with me. I paged back through the change pages it it looks like Mary Catlin was added as wife as the same source "One Branch of the Booth Family" 23 August 2013
Charles Jackson North of Buffalo NY - deceased member.

I always wonder what kind of sloppy or uncaring clerk, writes down a marriage date, but thinks so little of the woman that he neglects to write her maiden name.

I did a soundex search at NEHGS of Mary Toucey. That mention in vol 80 was the only journal article mentioning her name.

Even Torrey New England Marriages doesn't have a clue.

"CHURCHILL, Joseph (1649-1699) & Mary [CATLIN?]/TOWZEY?/ TOWSEY? (?1649-1738); 13 May 1674; Wethersfield {Brainerd Anc. 88; Am. Anc. 1:14, 10:105; Churchill (1901) 11; Hartford Prob. 1:287, 546; Reg. 80:331; Wethersfield 2: 221, 263, 326; Booth (1910) 94, 99; Edwards 5; Dillon Anc. 17; Sv 1: 387; Boardman and. 263; Boardman 230"
Anne, Thanks again ! This info from Torrey's explains why Mary Catlin was associated with Joseph Churchill. Decades ago when I took my first genealogy class the teacher cautioned against both Torrey's and Cutter's books, so I usually don't consider them. And I don't have the American Ancestors subscription so I look in all these other books. I am becoming intrigued by articles in the old NEHGS issues pre-1922 that are online.
Sheila, I spent some time checking the references given in Torrey. Inconclusive to say the least. I've put it all on Joseph's profile.
+1 vote

Regarding Joseph Churchill - Richard Cutter is usually a very accurate source.  I looked in the Catlin genealogy by C. C. Baldwin (Charles Candee)  1834-1895 Pub. 1882.  Publisher: Cleveland, Ohio, Leader Print. Available from archive.org  https://archive.org/details/catlin_00bald pg. 18 under Thomas Catlin sometimes Ketling in Hartford about 1645-6 owned 2 lots on Elm Street.

 

He had three children: John, Mary baptized May 6, 1616 died young; Mary baptized May 6, 1649.  

 

Nothing more John is the only one followed.

 

This is not my line but you did work on my Chandler too..Thanks

 

David T. Robertson Robertson-7481

 

 

answered by David T Robertson G2G6 (7.7k points)
David, thanks for the link to "Catlin" by Charles Candee Baldwin. I'm researching other families who also claim a wife Mary = Mary Catlin. I am curious to learn what specifically A. W. Ackerman said in NEHGR vol 80. Is it possible for you to edit your response to this question and change it to a comment rather than an answer ? I would like the question to be unanswered so that someone may be willing to get the Ackerman comment. Thanks
It also has no article by Ackerman.
Your link to Volume 80 is actually vol 76
+1 vote

Hi Sheila: 

This line of Churchills is not my line of research but I do remember that about 7-10 years ago, there was a great deal of discussion about the two Marys, Catlin and Burnham. The resident expert on Connecticut Churchills, at that time, was one Malcolm Churchill. I am not sure if Malcolm is still with us but his work would be. A good starting point would be: http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/catlin/501/ . Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

George Churchill

answered by George Churchill G2G6 Mach 4 (49.3k points)
This article by Malcom Churchill is a  good examination of backdoor logic.  First he starts with the premise that Mary Catlin married John Burnham, like he already made up his mind.

 

He describes that we must rule out Mary Catlin baptized 6 May 1649 as the wife of Joseph Churchill of Wethersfield. He states that she was born in Hartford 1 May 1658 and dies 13 Dec 1730 (doesn't say where).

 

He states that John Burnham married on 12 Nov 1684.  And that Mary Olcott was 26 years old.  A very likely marriage.  He states that if the dates for Mary Olcott are correct and if she married John Burnham, then Mary Catlin cannot have married John Burnham.  He goes on to tell us that Mary, the wife of John Burnham was admitted to full communion in May 1672.  However, he fails to reveal that John Burnham did not marry until 12 Nov  1684.  If the marriage was in 1684 then the Mary who is admitted to first Church could not be either Mary Olcott or Mary Catlin.  Both were not married to John Burnham by 1672 when the Mary who marries John Burnham was admitted.

 

Then the back door logic begins.  He states that there was no other John Burnham to have married Mary Catlin.  He does not say that there were no other Joseph Churchill who could have married Mary Catlin.  He says that because he was presurmise that Mary Catlin married John Burnham.  So something is wrong with the marriage date  in his mind.  He did not go back and look at Mary Olcott who was a perfect fit for the wife of John Burnham.  He has to believe there were two marriages.  He is looking for another Mary Catlin when he should be looking for another Mary Olcott.
+1 vote
Thank you for your work on these profiles, Sheila. I found a long, well-argued thread where the argument for Catlin is laid out and agreed upon by several parties.  It was written by the same Malcolm Churchill who argued for Towsey in 2003.

Malcolm Churchill. (2009, January 7). No Mary Towsey After All [Msg 2615]. Message posted to http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/churchill/2615/

This follow up has additional details:

Dennis Churchill. (2010, November 17). Re: No Mary Towsey After All [Msg 2817]. Message posted to http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/churchill/2817/
answered by Heather Husted G2G6 Mach 3 (30.9k points)
Thanks for the info. It will take me some time to read it through and see what is useful in the profile. I have more marriages to Mary Catlin or Mary Olcott in sources that do not explain why the particular Mary is selected.
Hi Sheila: Not to confuse the situation but this may have been part of the original problem away back when........ Elizabeth Tousey died 28 Oct 1751 wife of Josiah Churchill b. 08 Jun 1677; d. 22 Aug 1751; son of Benjamin; son of Josiah Churchill and Elizabeth Foote. Source Churchill Family in America, p.331, pid #9.

George

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