Please help with transcription and translation of Latin baptism document

+12 votes
291 views

I hope I have found the baptism document for Anna Maria Agnes Schalloo as up to now nothing is known about her mother.

I read the document as:

Die undecima maji 1799 circa sextum vespertina hic nata et postridie baptizata est Maria Agnes filia legitima Joannis Scallo aetatis 18 annorum ex civitate manhim reformatee religionis et Annae Krossenkij aetatis 27 annorum ex graie deus prope berlin in borussia religionis romano catholicae conjugum et hic habitantum

That translates (sort of) to:

On the eleventh day of May 1799 she was born about noontime  and the next day baptized Maria Agnes legitimate daughter of Joannis Scallo age 18 years, from the city of Mannheim, reformed and Annae Krossenkij age 27 years ex graie deus living nearby Berlin  in Prussia, Catholic partners

I'm looking forward to your opinions and corrections!

Also:

Can anyone offer a translation of the phrase  "ex graie deus"?

 

WikiTree profile: Anna Maria Pijcke
in Genealogy Help by Jan Terink G2G6 Pilot (252k points)
edited by Jan Terink

My Latin is even more limited than my Dutch but character for character I think your transcription appears mostly faithful to the original - obviously ignoring minor typographical variations such as ae vs æ and some capitalization... the only thing that jumped out at me was your transcription of "catholicce" which I would read as "catholicae".

Rob,

Thanks for the correction. I agree it says "catholicae" and will correct the text.

By the way: my Latin is limited to Google translate...

Can't make more of it than Rob and you did. I think it s just right now. Religion of Maria Catholicae.
I think the father was 38 years of age. If you compare the 1 in 1799 to the scribble it is not likely to be 18. In the next record there is also a 38 and it looks similar.
It's "ex grandens" - I would assume Grandens is a place name, "from Grandens near Berlin in Borussia"

3 Answers

+3 votes
Great!

I was wondering if "ex graie deus" could be "ex gratia deus"? Which means "by the Grace of God"?
by Chantal van der Molen G2G Crew (470 points)

Yes Chantal, could be, but in what context? Nearby Berlin? 27 years? I was also wondering if a place called Graiedeus nearby Berlin was meant. Couldn't find any though.

 

+4 votes

I would read 'sextum vespertina' not as being a sixth of the evening, but as 'sext' of the canonical hours and would be about noontime.

by Stew King G2G3 (3.1k points)
edited by Stew King
Stewart,

Thank you for your explanation, I will correct the translation!
+5 votes
There was Graudenz in Prussia - not exactly near Berlin, but I suppose it depends how far away you are.

I get the last bit as "from Graudens near Berlin in Prussia of the Roman Catholic religion married and living here" though the exact grammar is a puzzle.
by Anonymous Horace G2G6 Pilot (568k points)
Thank you, RJ.

Yes, maybe one could transcribe it as "Graudenz", but as you say it is not exactly near Berlin, some 500 kilometers...

How would you interpret "living here"? Annae or both? What is "here": Berlin, Graudenz, or Hoofdplaat (the baptism place)?
Same as in the first line, born here - in my parish.

It sounds a bit as if maybe mother isn't there at all ?

Maybe that's why it says something like: ''she's living by the Grace of God in or nearby Berlin'', (so as if she is still in/near Berlin and they are assuming but not sure if she is  alive or not ? 

He is Reformed and she (mother) Catholic, with all those religion conflicts those days this doesn't sound like a great combination, so maybe the mother stayed in Berlin or something and he took the child ? Far fetched maybe, but noticed that at her death record the mother was said to be Unknown ?

In his daughter's death registration, it mentions that he is her father, but that her mother is unknown.

Anna Maria was born in 1799. She passed away in 1831. On her death registration it mentioned that her last name was Schalloo, her exact birthday was unknown. It does mention she was born in Hoofdplaat, in March 1801. Yet her birth registration states her day of birth as May 11, 1799..

Maybe the Birth registration was exactly what father told after he arrived with his daughter ?

The first line says On the eleventh day of May 1799 she was born about noontime  and the next day baptized

So the mother must have been there...

Yes I know,  it's the ex graie deus that makes it sound like this (as if his wife isn't present and still near Berlin, but maybe, since there was not much consistency in the ways of writing, the Latin writing of the clercks wasn't always making sense as well ?

Maybe the ex graiedeus, was supposed to be ex grati deus, which translates as ''guidance from God'' or, depending on the context, it also translates as ''grateful to God'', which, if a healthy child was born and baptized, of course would make sense in a Church ...and by the Grace of God as Chantal already mentioned of course would make sense as well at a baptism...I think it is the inconsistency in writing those days, it now doesn't seem to make any sense...(and perhaps the clerck wasn't such a good Latin writer as well ?)

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