Tailboys LNAB

+9 votes
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Cokayne seems to prefer the Tailboys spelling for this family but this profile's ancestors and descendants have a number of different LNAB which do not match the EuroAristo naming standards. Could someone check Richardson and put a note in the profiles?  Many have been checked already so I was surprised to see the variation.Thanks!
WikiTree profile: Walter Tailboys
in Genealogy Help by Kirk Hess G2G6 Mach 6 (62.6k points)
While in the vicinity, I see we've got Tailboys-9 as the son of Alice Stafford, although Marlyn Lewis denies this strenuously.
LOL! The Tailboys LNABs are tough to tackle on WikiTree. I'm glad someone wants to do this. I think there might just as many under Tailbois ... but need to check. It's been a while.
Kirk - I checked the ancestors & descendants for Walter, and I think I posted to every non-Tailboys profile that the LNAB needs to change. Let me know the WikiTree ID of any I missed. Cheers, Liz
Thanks everyone!

1 Answer

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Best answer

Richardson has Tailboys for Walter (Magna Carta Ancestry, Vol IV, p 161 & Royal Ancestry, Vol V, p 110, TAILBOYS #13). I see no reason to remove PPP for Tailboys-33 or change his LNAB & all the profiles attached to his are LNAB Tailboys too (aside from mom & wife).

I think EuroAristo project uses MedLands as go-to for spelling, and I recently discovered that Magna Carta project also defers to MedLands when it & Richardson don't agree. WikiTree Guidelines say to "use their convention, not ours", so I usually try to check references for the actual person rather than just the surname. Richardson is solidly Tailboys. MedLands has a wide variety, including Tailboys, but I couldn't find an entry for Walter b c1350 m Margaret Deincourt. So I think we're still good on keeping Tailboys/PPP for Tailboys-33.

And Richardson's Royal Ancestry shows William Tailboys ([[Tailboys-9]]) as son of Walter & his first (unnamed) wife, not Alice Stafford. I'll go post something there.

Cheers, Liz

by Liz Shifflett G2G6 Pilot (398k points)
selected by Kirk Hess
Does Magna Carta really defer to MEDLANDS over Richardson on spelling? Did not notice that discussion, but to me that seems a bit odd given that Richardson is very much into spelling whereas MEDLANDS often gives a mass of different spellings, many clearly not intended to be any sort of standard in English.
I think the idea was that it makes no sense for Magna Carta to be different from EuroAristo, given the way it just picks out individual members of families.
They're a bit disconnected anyway.  Apparently the Lincolnshire line are believed to descend from the Northumberland line.  They in turn are supposed to descend from Ives and Elizabeth Taillebois who held Hepple in the time of King John.  A line is given in Jim Weber's RootsWeb tree, but no source.

Ives's parents are unknown, his wife was the heiress.  So he could easily have taken her name.  Her father was William fitz William, so the name could come from further back, or it could be her mother's.

No known connection with the Norman baron of Kendal.  He had no sons, though he did have brothers.  MedLands has other unconnected Tailleboises.

The name is sometimes used in books for the lords of Middleham, but not in any actual records.

I was surprised too - I had been working under the assumption that we deferred to Richardson in all things, not just conflicting facts. But once I saw that we defer to MedLands on names, I concluded the same as RJ - it makes sense that our policies "play nice" with other projects, especially EuroAristo, which covers the majority of Magna Carta project profiles (we also follow EuroAristo and Cymru project naming guidelines).

See MC project Naming Standards for the MedLands over Richardson on names policy & Project Sources for Richardson over older sources on facts policy.

Cheers, Liz

Thanks Liz!
RJ I looked at the origin of that Hepple family very long ago and did, IIRC find believable links back to Westmorland. There was a minor family using that surname in Cliburn, and it seems to be them who moved to Hepple? I would need to look it up, but I think it might come from an article by the antiquary Rev. Ragg.

Of course this only moves the problem a bit. There is still no explanation about what the relationship was between the "de Lancastre" Barons of Kendal (who claimed the founder originally used the surname Taillebois), and these other ones, and also no clear link for either back to the original Norman Ivo who ruled the area much earlier, but only had one daughter and no son. But a relationship seems likely somewhere.
There's also St Leger, St John etc, where Richardson spells them out.  But EuroAristo thinking might be changing - see the Bess of Hardwick thread.

MedLands won over Roos/Ros.  But Braose has yet to be tackled.
Found that I put the following notes on an old webpage of mine (before I got stricter with myself about placing my sources in!):

"In any case after Ivo and Ralf, there is a long gap in the records for definite sightings in England of this family. While it is not clear how later families with this surname connect back to Ivo and/or the de Lancasters, there were some who were specifically in the area of Ivo's possessions in Cumbria, most strikingly a second Ivo de Tailboys, chamberlain of Robert de Veteripont. He possessed land in Cliburn, and the neighbouring parishes of Bampton and Askham, in Westmorland, and apparently through a marriage of about 1209, also Hepple, in Northumberland and Hurworth in Durham. His descendants came to hold land in Lincolnshire"

Regnal years of the Prince-bishops of Durham, needed to decode Surtees's dating system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Durham#Early_Medieval_bishops

Next question - why is Sir Robert Tailboys, or Taylbois, Lord of Redesdale, not identified as "Robin of Redesdale"?

 

RJ - I thought Braose had been decided: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Braose-104
Missed that

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