UK-Man, Christian Family 1500s, What Birth Sites, Dates?

Question

Work on this UK challenge  I posted this a month ago on the Request for Help. : no help yet, a fair number of views

I am requesting help, to understand and contribute birth information about a handful of Christian Family individuals, who were born and alive late 16th Century on ISLE OF MAN. & Cumberland, Workington, England

This family had position, influence and power. and some historic individuals.

First reference point is William Christian-100, ( may be duplicated Christian-1893) birth Derbyhaven, Man. His son who is eldest & of interest is Ewan Christian-175 born Cumberland Eng, then 2 sisters of Ewan who are listed birth Lezayre Man.

However there is an additional sister who is of particular interest:
Katherine Christian-53 only listed as England. Can anyone find Katherine birth possibilities? Birth sources for Ewan and Katherine should be correlated with their mother, as well as other Christians.

 Her mother or at least William's wife at this time is Mabel Jane Curwen, that is what brings about the Cumberland site. I think more than one, maybe all children were born in England. just a day trip by boat.

Find anything about her birth, as a Christian, McChristian, Curwen, or even a misspelled Curwen.? Time frame like the sisters is generally the decade starting with Ewen 1579. Mother could have first name as well as last name mixed up also.

One source I read about Man history suggested no church records in late 1500s, or early 1600s

My take on the Birth date location data for each of these Christian profiles is that it is mostly historic estimates brought over on the ged files. Historically we know key individuals in both Curwen and christian Family. Birth location and Baptism may be quite separate locations.  Really no specific sources I could see on the current tree profiles for this family's Birth.

I would love to have some Parish notations from somewhere anywhere in UK. I would definitely check Cumberland closely. On Man, when someone has entered Lazayre as location or none I would be inclined to estimate Milntown, Man which is not a parish but the residence area for family in that time period.

One other thought, Curwen individuals might have Catholic leanings My reading of Man history suggests no Catholic parishes there, at that time.

Educate me about Cumberland? if not records in the churches, where would they be?

Dont expect Christian family would have done public things outside the Anglican churches.  Several served as Senior judges and must have had a lot of rigid Anglican pressure. rule setting. needing to keep certain image.

As said above, lacking data it looks like some degree of historic guessing. That reality is OK. just wanted the dialog here. Look forward to some good input. and perspective.

 

 

Comments

I recently posted to Kitty's Library page http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Kitty%27s_Library , 4 Map links for Scotland that may help you with your project.: 

• 1822 Map of the Highlands of Scotland denoting the districts or counties inhabited by the Highland Clans. Lizars, William Home, 1788-1859. Edinburgh : A. Constable & Co., 1822. National Library of Scotland. http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ maps.nls.uk

• Bartholomew Survey Atlas of Scotland, 1912. Historical Maps of Scotland. The Edinburgh Geographical Institute, 1912. Bartholomew, John G., 1860-1920. Plate 9 of J.G. Bartholomew's 'Survey Atlas of Scotland', 1912. National Library of Scotland. http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ maps.nls.uk

• Military Maps of Scotland (18th century). A description of the Highlands of Scotland, the situation of the several clans and the number of men able to bear arms, as also ye forts lately erected and roads of communication or military ways carried on by His Majesty's command ... / C. Lempriere. Lempriere, C. fl. ca. 1731. Acc.11104. Map Rol.a.42. National Library of Scotland. http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ maps.nls.uk

• Military Maps of Scotland (18th century). Map of Scotland showing the Forts at Inverness, Fort Augustus, Fort William and Moidart and on which is pencilled the proposed military roads, also the names and numbers of men that could be raised by the various clans. Wade, George (Engineer). Original Survey & Date on Map: ca. 1724-45?. Acc.10497 Wade.58a National Library of Scotland. http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ maps.nls.uk

Answer 1

You don't say what resources you are already familiar with but the obvious place to start for IoM would be the National Heritage Library, where there is, for example, this newsletter http://www.manxnationalheritage.im/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Bibliographies-Isle-of-Man-in-the-17th-Century.pdf that describes a dozen or so reference works available on William Christian  (a.k.a Illiam Dhone) including:

Browne, Rita Christians of Knockrushen and Scarlett genealogical trees etc / compiled by Rita Browne. This includes the family of William Christian, it is primarily of use in compiling family histories. Archive Ref MDL 37

Have you already followed this path?

Comments

I also note the disclaimer there that:

This bibliography concentrates on secondary printed sources but the Library also holds a wealth of original material in the archives: much of this is often difficult to read to the unaccustomed eye due to the style of handwriting prevalent at the time

There are very helpful people there that have scanned things for me in the past (for a standard fee, of course) but the subtext in our communications is that they or others there would be happy to have such a research project to bite into (again, I imagine, for a fee).

 

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Another question that immediately occurs to me is why would they record Lezayre if the births were in Milntown? Wouldn't they have been recorded as Ramsey? Mind you, I haven't looked into where the boundaries were drawn that long ago. Perhaps they've moved in the intervening years?

[My reference for this is the 1867 6" Ordinance Survey map at http://maps.nls.uk/view/102343383 -- is there a better (i.e. more contemporaneous) one that has as much detail?] 

There's a transcript of a 1798 description of Lezayre parish at http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/manxsoc/msvol06/ptour02.htm , which says the church was rebuilt in 1704, but no word on what was there before. Unfortunately it does report:

The old register, mutilated and imperfect, begins 1636. From 1636 to 1715 inclusive, the baptisms were 754; 164 couples were married; and 436 persons were buried. From 1750 to 1774 inclusive, another period of twenty years, 851 were baptized; 222 couples were married; and 554 persons buried. 

The same site (Manx Notebook) has a transcript of the very first entries in the register.

 

Answer 2

 Looks like a visit to Cumbria could be prove useful.(or at least contacting the archives)

THE CURWEN FAMILY OF WORKINGTON HALL is a huge collection of family  records for the Curwens but includes some Christian  records They are  in the Cumbria archives and local studies centre at Whitehaven

 A very helpful descriptive list here  There is a lot there (noted that there  are 3 pedigrees of the Curwens and one of the Christians 

 "C & W, n.s., IV, p.217 (1903). "The Christians of Ewanrigg," by Alan D Curwen. Brief biographical notes on the family from the 15th. century, with PEDIGREE"

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/22905c20-22e6-4daf-8bac-648239eb758b

Comments

Oh my, you must be a mind reader regarding visit to Cumbria. 4 weeks from now I have an 11 hour flight from LAX to LHR. big journey and genealogy is significant driver. But I've put my spotlight on Midlands and from London to Bristol. 8 months ago I would have put the spotlight on Cumbria, started in the north, and that is part of why I had this specific request up in March. I'm probably too old and not enough stamina to jam Cumbria into schedule, right now.

email contact to the archives is maybe as close as I will get. I am hopeful others in the community can pick up on the challenge.

My humble conclusions so far were, that the genealogy detectives should be reviewing a 3-4 generation stretch for the Curwens in Workington. I have digested a fair amount about Ewanrigg, That is a historic tip-off that the families were "successfully" capitalizing on the geographic, economic, social, political network, factors they could visualize.

Ewanrigg is one piece, that flowed from marriage of William and Mary Jane Curwen. Christian's had "position, influence and power" but they actually brought less to the partnership, in my opinion except the male of the pair. What they had could be eliminated almost in blink of the eye, by English dictates.

 

Curwens held key to the very important ports and experienced mariners of Whitehaven and Maryport. This entire part of the globe would start to appreciate end of 1500s-1600 that prosperity demanded trade prominence. Curwens and other  Northern families (vicinity of Allerdale, northern marches) had innoculated themselves to some degree from all the political, religious refomation craziness. Curwens were in parliament, and thus were on the grapevine listening and learning the issues. Ewanrigg is evidence of that.  Stanley Earls (who had their thumb on Isle of Man) had the blood of Curwens, if that would slightly improve odds?. IoM had ports and mariner knowledge, but their population was insufficient and they were in danger of economic and maybe social extinction

There is a lot of historical detective work that will be interwoven.

Bottom line, thanks for the suggestions about where some records on family dates and locations might be. Very grateful. Nice start.

 

Marty