France to New France or Quebec?

Question

I just added a category and flag "Guillaume Renaud migrated from France to New France" then noticed his spouse was flagged Marie de La Mare migrated from France to Québec.

Shoudn't we consolidate and agree on New France or Quebec?

Comments

Can someone give a good link for map of parishes in  Quebec through time.

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David - this is an older post so I think you might want to create a new one asking this question, sorry I've not got a good reference for you.

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David, this is a link to a map that is open to all, parish opening dates are stated on the icons that come up when you select one of them.

https://www.genealogiequebec.com/fr/LAFRANCE/carte/704

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Thanks so much Danielle!

Answer 1

Before 1760 it was New France, after 1760 it becomes Québec province then a succession of names.  Canada was the name of the St-Lawrence valley colony under French régime, and was still in use after the English conquest, although the English tried to eradicate it.  (Didn't work, so they gave in and called things Canada)

Comments

Thank you Danielle.  Do I take for granted that children of pre 1760  imigrants  were then born in New France?

Micheline Gadbois MacDonald -46 

 

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Yes if they were born before then, obviously no if after.  We do have lots of families who overlap the change of régime.  And don't forget that there were some immigrants who traveled back and forth, and some of their children were born in France.  So you can't really take things for granted.

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Thank you Danielle, I think things are clearer now.

Answer 2

Migrating to New France and Migrating to Quebec are not necessarily equivalent (nor contemporaneous) so it's not quite a simple thing to 'agree on'.

New France was a collective name for all the French Colonies in North America (Acadia, Canada, Louisiana, Plaisance, and I suppose de facto it also included the Pays d'en Haut) but was also often used to refer specifically to the Colony of Canada.

The Colony of Canada, after being ceded to the British was renamed the Province of Quebec so "Migrating to Quebec", while geographically the same as migrating to New France (when used synonymously for Colony of Canada) is not temporally the same.

Comments

What if we enter it as  Québec, New France, Acadia, New France,  Louisiana, New France,  etc..  Would that be appropriate, follow the rules and satisfactory for everyone?

 

Micheline Gadbois MacDonald - 46

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There are a dozens of tangents that have distracted me in answering your question, I will however try and stay more-or-less "on point" with the following answer:

Most of the profiles I have looked at for the other French colonies in North America use the name of the colony by itself for example "migrated from France to Acadia".

The 'proper' name of the colony was "Canada" and while "New France" is often used synonymously it is not per se a "correct" synonym. As one page from the University of Laval highlights:

Les termes Canada et Nouvelle-France n'étaient pas synonymes sous le Régime français. Le Canada, circonscrit à la vallée du Saint-Laurent, faisait partie de la Nouvelle-France qui comprenait avant 1713, non seulement le Canada, mais les colonies de l'Acadie, de Terre-Neuve (ou Plaisance), de la Baie d'Hudson, des Pays-d'en-Haut, du Pays des Illinois et de la Louisiane.

Notwithstanding the above quote, I have seen period maps that clearly labeled the territory as "Canada ou Nouvelle France" so the synonymous usage of the two names (colloquially at least) is certainly of long-standing. Also, the historic sites in Quebec City that I have visited also favored (if my memory serves) using Nouvelle France, perhaps because it more clearly differentiates the French colony from the modern country for the tourists.

With all this said, while I think "... migrated from France to Canada" paired the flag of New France would be the most accurate, the prevailing use on Wikitree seems to be "New France" and I don't see a pressing need to change that (although "Nouvelle France" would arguably better fit with our guidelines on place names)

"Quebec" however was not a 'country-equivalent' colony until the French colony of Canada came under British rule and was renamed the province of Quebec. Using "migrated from France to Quebec" for an ancestor that migrated during French Rule would be an Anachronism.

Answer 3

This creates an additional question for me...his wife Marie (http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_La_Mare-39) arrived as a Filles du Roi in 1686 and according to the Filles du Roi Society (www.fillesduroi.org): "The Filles du Roi or King's Daughters, were some 770 women who arrived in the colony of New France (Canada) between 1663 and 1673, under the financial sponsorship of King Louis XIV of France. Most were single French women and many were orphans."  Why would the bio reflect she immigrated to Quebec when clearly, the society itself defines ALL Filles du Roi as arriving in New France? I think her bio should be corrected to reflect this.  Sorry, Richard, didn't mean to steal your post/question :)

Comments

She probably arrived in Québec city, as opposed to Québec province.  Lots of people confuse the two.  And the Filles du Roi did NOT all come to Canada, some went to other French colonies, such as the island colonies.

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Danielle - thanks for the info, I was quoting their organization page and I didn't realize the ships carrying Filles du roi landed any place other than New France.

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I know the organization only talks about those who came to Canada colony (they didn't go to Acadie either, from what I've seen, and that was part of New France).  But when you dig a bit more, you see much higher numbers quoted by the French government of the time as girls having been sent out to the colonies than the number who married here.  A lot of ships came here via Guadeloupe and other island colonies of the French.

Answer 4

Here's a timeline of historical names and who rules the area in question.  As I understand place naming should follow the convention of using the name that was used at the time the person was alive.  

Canada historical Names

 

Canada 1867, July 1st

Canada 1536 Jacques Cartier from Indian Kanata

Area along the St Lawrence River was referred to as Canada until 1763

Samuel de Champlain 1612 Named governor of New France

British Rule in Canada July 20, 1629

New France returned to France March 29, 1632, Treaty of St. Germaine-Laye

First Council of New France 1648

Jean d Lauzon 1651 Appointed Governor of New France

Pierre d’Argenson 1657 Appointed Governor of New France

D’Avaugour 1661 Appointed Governor of New France

Jean Talon September 12, 1665 King Louis XIV decides to rebuild New France and make Jean Talon the first intendant

Frontenac 1672 Appointed Governor of Quebec

Jolliet and Marquette 1673 Reach Mississippi

La Salle April 9, 1682 Claims Louisiana for France

La Barre 1682 appointed Governor of Quebec

Denonville 1685 appointed Governor of Quebec

Frontenac 1689 Begins his second term as Vieregal

Callieres 1697 appointed administrator of Canada

Vaudreuil 1703 Appointed Governor of Quebec

Beauharnois 1703 Appointed Intendant

England takes Acadia, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia 1713

Gilles Hocquart 1731 Appointed Intendant to New France

La Galissonierre 1747 Appointed Governor of New France

New France Surrenders to British September 8, 1760

Treaty of Paris February 10, 1763 Officially transfers New France to Britain as the Colony of Quebec

Murray 1764 becomes civil Governor of Quebec

Guy Carleton 1768 becomes civil Governor of Quebec

PEI 1769 becomes a separate British Colony, separating from Nova Scotia

Northern US Border 1783 Accepted from Atlantic to Lake of the Woods

New Brunswick August 16, 1784 established as a Colony from Nova Scotia

Lower Canada June 19, 1791 Established as Colony (Quebec)

Upper Canada June 19, 1791 Established as Colony (Ontario)

49th Parallell 1818 establishes remaining border to Pacific Ocean with US

Lord Durham 1839 Governor of all the North American Colonies

Province of Canada February 10, 1841 Upper becomes West Canada and Lower becomes East Canada. All colonies are joined into Province of Canada with Kingston(Ontario) as capital

First Postage Stamp 1851 First Province of Canada

Trade Agreement June 6, 1854 US and Province of Canada sign reciprocity Agreement

Ottawa 1857 Queen Victoria move capital of Canada to Ottawa from Kingston

for United Province of Canada

Confederation Conference October 10, 1864 to establish British North American colonies

Dominion of Canada July 1, 1867 comes into being Sir John A MacDonald Prime Minister

Comments

Kingston, PEI? Sorry, I don't think so. The united Province of Canada (1841) combined Canada East and Canada West only, as far as I can determine. The Maritimers were not included.

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Hmm, there are some discrepancies in this list.  For new France era, take a look at the Chronicles of New France.  The named governors are governors of all of New France, not just the St-Lawrence valley territory of Canada.  Which sometimes brought about some conflicts with the Acadian nobility.

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Thanks for the correction on Kingston.  Confused the birthplace of Canada in Charlottetown, PEI.  I made the corrections to the list.