Ralph Josselin/Josselyn LNAB, merge help?

Question

Ralph, father of Thomas the emigrant (Josselyn), grandfather of Nathaniel, (Joslin) who had a G2G about his name and the consensus was Joslin from the PGM sources. However, the DNB prefers "Josselin" for Ralph and his grandson and diarist, Ralph Josselin (Josselyn) so I'm hoping we can clarify Thomas's ancestor's LNAB spelling.

It seems to me that Thomas' descendants were the ones who changed the spelling to Joslin. Most historical sources with Ralph's will spell their name as Josselyn. Modern sources prefer Josselin so I assume that's the current spelling.

I'd suggest Josselin as the LNAB, with an OLN with Josselyn so it can be found.

There's a duplicate tree with Joslyn as the LNAB which is wrong and needs merging. Ralph's merge was rejected twice for 'research' then dropped and ignored. Good news is I've done the research! Bad news is I don't want to tag dozens profiles for merging. hoping the 'crowd' can help. 

Also, I added euroaristo because I can't figure out if he's landed gentry - he seems to be an example of a relatively wealthy yeoman farmer who was not lord of a manor so he does not qualify for the template (but Vicar Ralph prob. does). Thanks for your help!

Comments

Is "the DNB" the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography?

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Yes DNB = Oxford Dictionary of National Biography

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I was working with a Joslyn-152 yesterday b in 1666 somewhere unknown. A source is shown for him of Mayflower families through 5 generations volume 13, from 2006. I don't have access to this source, but could it shed light on LNAB spelling?

In any event, he probably needs to get added to list of names to change. He isnt listed with any parents - perhaps they used one of the other spellings. I'll try to research him a bit further, though.

Update: I found a duplicate for Peter Joslyn, and a source that makes it look like his last name should be spelled Joslin; this is consistent with September 2015 guidance as well.

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I am not related to any Joslins ( Josselyn, Jocelyns, ect ) but feel your pain in deciding the LNAB at WikiTree. I had to clean up these Joslin profiles awhile back and as for the American ones, the LNAB decided on because of reputable sources was JOSLIN. I do not have any suggestions for the England-based ones.

See http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/181544/what-should-josslin-josselyn-joslin-josslin-lnab-nathaniel?show=181544#q181544

http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/180998/there-about-profiles-peter-joslin-merged-somebody-please-help?show=180998#q180998

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although i traced my husbands family back to Mass. his line ended up on the cherokee,choctaw,chippawa,reservation in oklahoma,where is grandfather married a choctaw woman(daughter of the chief,it is said) and his father was born on that reservation.his family in new england spelled it joslyn and josslyn.but his grandfather spelled it joslin.so it seems that many families chose the way they wanted to spell it.

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I am the reason that Maggie spent so much time on the Joslin/Joslyn/Josselyn profiles and I thank Maggie for her assistance.  The descendants of Thomas Josselyn for the most part have adopted EITHER the spelling Joslin or Joslyn.  I have a 4th cousin whose family adopted the latter spelling whereas my family adopted the former spelling.  Please do not change these profiles as that will result in confusion for future generations who will be looking for the incorrect spelling in birth and death information.  In modern times we are bound to the spellings of our surnames by legal documentation and the profiles should not be altered.  Thank you

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Please do not change the spellings on the last name for these old Joslin/Joslyn ancestors however. How the living Joslin or your Grandfather Joslin spelled it, use his spelling for himself ( and maybe his father? ). Josslyn variations are widespread. Of course, you use how they spelled it in their lifetime USING RECORDS ( not Family Trees on Ancestry, MyHeritage, ect ). If you need help, just ask me (-: Two heads better than one with these surnames.

Thanks, V. It took a lot of work to get them straightened out. 

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Maggie, do we need to PPP this profile? We could do so under PGM as an "adjunct" since he's the father of a PGM immigrant.

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I think that's a good idea, Jillaine. We can PPP that surname as an adjunct in the PGM project.

Answer 1

Wikitree policy: The LNAB should be the spelling the family used at the time of the event. This could be found on a birth or christening record of the person or some other document related to the immediate family (marriage record of parents; land deed or probate of parents *near the time of the birth* etc).

Comments

I still have a problem with this issue, especially within the Joslin family.  Page 367 lists George A., son of Alfred Joslin (Alfred being #18).  George was a successful businessman who made a fortune in newsprint and had a beautiful big home in Omaha, Neb.  The home is now the JOSLYN Art Museum, because apparently George changed the spelling of his last name.  I'm sure that his obituary and death cert use his preferred spelling, but I haven't actually researched that issue.

Also, my Grandmother's cousin, Hazel E. Joslyn, was an archivist at Baker Library at Dartmouth College who died in 1955.  I have a copy of the obituary which ran in the Dartmouth Almuni Magazine at that time in which she is listed as having been survived by her mother, Mrs. Elizabeth (Bacon) JOSLYN.  And her brothers also used that spelling.

I've been so impressed with the programming that goes with a website of this magnitude as I realize that there are about a gazillion lines of programming code behind all of the features available to us.  What would be the possibility of asking for another line on the data sheet that we use to create the profiles that would allow us to enter the person's "Preferred spelling of the surname" so that it would show up on the individual's profile?

I know that I would appreciate that option when entering profiles for the Joslin (Joslyn) and Combs (with their various spellings) profiles.  Just realized that I have another family branch on my husband's side...Truesdell vs Truesdale.  If I could have the opportunity to make sure the preferred spelling appears NOT as an AKA, I would appreciate it!

Thanks for your time!

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In this case the best answer for the LNAB is 'Josselyn', matching his will. This family has a very wide spelling variation on the surname - NEHGR v.71 pp.19-33,227-257 has a good summary of all the variations. 

 

Answer 2

Unfortunately this is a sticky issue. The genealogies given by Matt Bushnell Jones in The History of Waitsfield VT. on page 359, do not include Ralph, however the intro states that "Various branches of this family have adopted different spellings of the name but in these records the older form of Joslin is used." This subject is very important to my husband and myself as his last name has been spelled Combs for at least the last 5 generations. Prior to that it was spelled Coombs and even Coombes. He 's very sensitive to having his name spelled correctly and would be highly upset if someone went through his family tree and started changing the spelling! Not only that but future generations would be very confused when they started comparing birth and death records.

My great grandmother was Harriet Ann Joslin. However, she had cousins who used the form Joslyn. Their records all reflect that alternate form and when I enter their profiles on Wiki tree I hope no body comes through and "corrects" them!

My point in all this is to say that I don't think we have any business changing a surname is a family has a preferred spelling.

Thanks for your time! Ginni Combs

Comments

I was just trying to figure out how Ralph spelled his name, which is difficult in this case. The emigrants to New England changed the spelling after emigration - I'm trying to clarify what they changed it from. 

The "Great Vowel Shift" from middle to modern English changed the pronunciation of vowels which is why the 'y' switched to an 'i'.The written record we have is from a clerk or minister based on what they heard, and on top of that the ancestor (or the clerk!) might not have been very literate so you might not have even known (or cared) about spelling. 

Ralph was a cousin of the senior branch of the Josselyn family who were landed gentry with the Manor of Hyde Hall and High Roding nearby in Essex with a coat of arms the ancestors of the Earls of Roden who used the spelling "Jocelyn". Visititaton (Josselyn, Jocelin)

Answer 3

There is no child named Dorothy in the Ralph Josselyn family group of children, is there?

Can a PGM project member or Josselyn expert let me know before I remove her? Thanks.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Josselyn-23

 

 

Answer 4

I'm trying to find the link where it stated the spelling was changed to Joslin with Thomas line. The Joslin line has many spellings, and I believe it's a preference, but the last 6 generations in my line have spelled it Joslin. Are you aware there is a Josselyn foundation in England as they may have some answers also.

Regards

Dave