Need to disconnect George Payne-44 from his parents

+11 votes
275 views

There have been quite a few merges going on with the Virginian Paynes, of which there are many branches and knots and stumps and even wreaths. In searching for sources, I came across a very good one, The Paynes of Virginia. There is a second edition but the first one is free on Hathitrust, the differences being unclear.

Now in The Paynes of Virginia, Brooke Payne states that George 1., the son of William Payne and Susannah Merriman and descendant of the immigrant John Payne, was married to Frances Edmonds and that George and Frances were the parents of Susannah, William, Ann, George, Frances, Catherine, Margaret, John and Richard, mentioned in their wills.

George 2., who married Mary Woodson, and mentioned in his will sons John, George, Josias, wife Mary, grandaughter Agnes Payne and grandsons Augustine and Jesse Payne, is not even discussed in The Paynes of Virginia.

I came across this huge attempt at de-conflating the two Georges, but Patrick Payne mistakenly thought that George 1. also had a son Josiah, though he did not. His best point is:

However, Brooke makes a good case by including that in William's will, he states that all of his children were under 16 in 1696 when it was made. His eldest son, William, was born in 1685 and George could not have been born until after 1689 being the youngest.

George 2 married Mary Woodson in 1705 and given the above, George 1 would have been 16 at the most at that point.

Finally, after looking at the Payne yDNA group on FTDNA, if I'm reading this correctly, it appears that George 2. does not descend from John the immigrant or William and Frances.

Linage 1D vs Linage 20 http://papayne.rootsweb.ancestry.com/dna-project/

R-M269 Payne group R-M269-01 vs R-M269 Payne group R-M269-09 https://www.familytreedna.com/public/payne?iframe=ycolorized

So this is a big deal because George 2. is the ancestor of Dolly Madison and because there are 3000 Ancestry trees that claim George 2. is the son of William and Susannah.

Would everyone be ok with George Payne-44 being disconnected from William Payne-2118?

WikiTree profile: George Payne
in Genealogy Help by Carrie Quackenbush G2G6 Mach 7 (73.5k points)
edited by Carrie Quackenbush
I am totally ok with George Payne-44 being disconnected from William Payne-2118.
Thanks, Maggie.

There have been no objections so it appears safe to go ahead. I'm also going to recreate George 1. so they can be set as Rejected Matches.
Carrie/All, I know I've been absent through all of this but I haven't stopped researching and just wanted to add that I am currently investigating clues that suggest a possible relationship between this George Payne and his family with the St. Mary's / Dorchester County Payne's of Maryland. There seems to be overlap in the QUAKER RECORDS showing both of them attended the same meeting house.

1 Answer

+2 votes
by David Selman G2G Astronaut (1.1m points)
Thank you, David. That is very helpful.
Carrie you are welcome.

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