Proposal to Remove First Name from Samuel Shattuck, Husband of Damaris

+5 votes
444 views
The first name of the husband of widow Damaris Shattuck is not know, according all the research I've seen.  I propose that the first name of the Shattuck husband (Samuel) be removed.

(There is also a proposal to merge the two wives of "Samuel" Shattuck, Damaris Sibley into Damaris Unknown, as her origins are not known.)
WikiTree profile: Unknown Shattuck
in Genealogy Help by Vic Watt G2G6 Pilot (330k points)

A new comment on the profile suggests another topic requiring discussion. It states:

William is not the father of Samuel. Some people think Samuel's name was really William. Perhaps the two profiles should be merged. If not, William should be removed as father of Samuel.

Particularly since this is a project-protected profile, it looks like a discussion is warranted.

I agree. I saw that you had added the PPP, and that is why I asked the question.  The problem is that the first name of Damaris's husband is not known, and his origins are not known, as least from the research that I have done.

So, the choices are: divorce Damaris from her husband Samuel and add a new husband "Unknown Shattuck," or change Samuel's first name to Unknown and separate him from William.  Either works.
I wonder if the "Samuel" theory is based on the name of the oldest son?
Sheesh; what a mess of profiles. I did some cleanup.
Her maiden should be unknown and her spouses given name unknown. Parents should be excommunicated.

I wonder if this site might have started some of the myth of William Shattuck as the husband of the Widow Damaris:

https://jrm.phys.k-state.edu/genealogy/needham/d0003/I626.html

There is a reference to "Memorials of the Descendants of William Shattuck", Appendix Boston, MA, 1855, Appendix and also p. 57 stating that it is suggested that this author made a claim as to the identity of the husband of Widow Damaris Shattuck but the author did not suggest this. He only suggested that a younger William and Samuel might have been brothers and son of Widow Damaris. I think folks have copied this in good faith from this web site but if you read the book it doesn't say that at all. Where the idea of Samuel as a spouse or Sibly started I haven't got a clue.

I've looked at the other stuff Torrey 2:1357, Dawes-Gate 1:304; TAG 30:155; Savage 4:62; Coltman Ancenry p 166. Not a lot of meet on these bones either.

2 Answers

0 votes

On a related topic, can we discuss Damaris' other spouse, Thomas Gardner?  A few years ago, I tracked down a will (and paid to get a copy of it) for a Thomas Gardner dated November 1623.  Listed as 'husbandman' on his will.  Mentions wife Agnes; sons Robert, John and Thomas; daughters Margaret and Catherine.  See this posting I did:  http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/67633/looking-someone-reading-english-wills-1600s-thomas-gardner

I'll start a new topic, but wanted to mention it here...

by Darlene Athey-Hill G2G6 Pilot (435k points)
Meanwhile, I'd vote to remove Samuel's name and change it to unknown, with a note in the bio that some consider his name to be Samuel or William.  Let's just hope we don't end up with a ton of duplicates when someone searches for Samuel Shattuck...

As to Damaris, I'd leave her name alone for now (Sibley).  Perhaps more research will turn up something...
Darlene, Why would you keep the LNAB as Sibley.  I can't find any evidence for this name.

Because of the comment that Kenneth Kinman made on her profile:  "... I concluded long ago that Damaris Sibley (who married our Samuel or William Shattuck) could very well be a Damaris Sibley (bp. 22 February 1595, St. Pauls, Walden, Hertfordshire, England), apparently a daughter of Henry Sibley (bp. 19 January 1559/60, Cheveley, Cambridgeshire)."  I think research should be done to see if anything can be turned up in relation to this.  If not, then I would proceed to merge Sibley into Unknown.  But I see no harm, prior to merging, to look into this possibility...

I saw that bp in Hertfordshire on Familyseach a few days ago and there is a marriage of her to someone else in the same place about 20 years later. So I believe based on that marriage record this is a different person. The name isn't that common and so chances are very high that the marriage in Hertfordshire belongs to the same women bp on that date in Hertfordshire. Also Hertfordshire is really far from where any of the related families came from. I'm not saying the geographical distance disproves it but it certainly doesn't support the notion that she was our gal. A more likely bp place would be in the area of Bradpole in Dorset, England where related families are from. However, I checked the online Clerk's records for Bradpole and their records only go back to 1695. So if she was baptized there we will never know:

http://www.opcdorset.org/BradpoleFiles/Bradpole.htm

However, there are some Shattock/Shattuck records in nearby Dorcester, Dorset, England if you want to take a look at them:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fordingtondorset/Files2/HolyTrinityBaptisms1550.html

Maybe someone can make something of these. My tree has been down at Ancestry due to data loss on and off for days so it is slowing me down a bit. I would normally try to piece these together on my tree there first to see if I can make sense of them. So I can't work on this now. But maybe one of you could.
Familysearch.org has is:

Damaris Siblie
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:
22 February 1595
SAINT PAULS WALDEN, HERTFORD, ENGLAND
father:
Henry Siblie

 

Damarise Sybly
England Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage:
1628
Walkern, Hertford, England
spouse:
Thomas Wheatly

 

So assuming she married this Thomas Wheatly she is not the same person.
0 votes
Looking at this family, it seems to me that the solid profile at the center is Damaris Unknown-191935 (and Sibley-70 needs to be marged into Unknown-191935).  We don't know Damaris' LNAB.  We don't know who she first married or where.  We do know that once in New England she appears with 7 children with LNAB of Shattuck, of whom 8 are linked to her profile.

We can assume that her children had a father named Shattuck, but we don't actually know that.  Much less probable, but within the realm of possibility, is that her own LNAB was Shattuck and she had all seven children out of wedlock.  But that is just to say that even our assumptions about where the name from could be false, since there is no documentation.  

If I were creating the profile from scratch, I would not create a profile for her children's father;  we simply know nothing about him.  Since there is already a profilee, and existing profiles are hard to get rid of I would go with the suggestion to make him Unknown Shattuck, but I would de-link him from his father, and delete the birth and death dates, which are unsourced, retaining just the quote that documents that we know nothing about him.  Well, there needs to be a birth year, so it should be estimated from the birth years of his children (see below.)  And the way it was estimated described.

While the cited American Genealogist article does not give birth dates for the children, approximate birth years can be calculated and estimated from the other dates.  Since Damaris was necessarily present at their births, these estimated dates tell you a little something about Damaris' life.  Presumably all these estimated dates occur prior to her marriage to Gardner.  If the children were all born in England, as is suggested, then her immigration would have occurred between the last birth and the marriage to Gardner.  That gives a set of dates to search for immigration and ship records, which might give further information such as place of embarkation.  

This all goes far beyond whether a first name should be deleted -- yes -- but I would hope that more research would be done.  A woman alone in the New England wilderness with 7 children.  How did this come to be?  What did she have to do to cross the Atlantic?  How did she find food and a roof until Gardner came along?
by Jack Day G2G6 Pilot (363k points)

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