Proposal: Clean up Czech rulers

+10 votes
89 views

I would like to propose the following changes to the Přemyslovci in order to begin bringing this family into compliance with WikiTree style guides, beginning with Bořivoj:

  1. Disconnect Bořivoj (Přemyslovci-1) from his parents and categorize his ancestors as legendary. He is the first documented ruler of his line. His presumed ancestors are listed in legends without documentation otherwise.
  2. Change birth date and place: He is presumed to have been born between 852 and 855 and it is not known where. He is generally presumed to be the founder of Prague and it is hard to see how he could have been born in a city he later founded.
  3. Change death date and place: The earliest in the literature is 888, the latest 900; for place it should be Čechy, Velká Morava as Bohemia was part of Great Moravia at the end of the 9th century.

 After this is accomplished I can put in a brief biography. Then wives and children can be merged.

WikiTree profile: Bořivoj I z Čechy
in Genealogy Help by Helmut Jungschaffer G2G6 Pilot (521k points)

2 Answers

+1 vote
Helmut, you obviously have the information for him, so I'm certainly in favor of you moving forward with your suggestions.  I would wait a few days to see if any of the project managers (or others) have any comments.  If you don't receive any objections to your proposals, at that point I would move forward.

Thanks for taking an interest and researching this!
by Darlene Athey-Hill G2G6 Pilot (369k points)
I also don't have any objections to this proposal.  It will be great to get this family cleaned up.

Let me know if there is anything we can do to help.
His descendants come with all sorts of flavors for LNAB, if I could get some help getting the right LNAB for the inevitable merging that will be needed, that would be great. I'll bring it up when I get there.
+1 vote

Helmut, in addition to what you have already proposed, I would recommend that you take a look at the Legends Category which is intended to address this kind of situation and see if it is appropriate here.   http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Legends

Simply delinking Bořivoj (Přemyslovci-1) from his parents leaves the preceding generations floating without explanation.  If you created a subcategory called "Czech Ancestors Legend" or something more appropriate, it would give you a place to describe the legendary character of these generations, describe how the legend developed, where the legend can be found, etc.  Since there is no documentation for the individual profiles of the preceding generations, they would each be marked { questionable } and categorized with "Czech Ancestors Legend".   

Whoever first uploaded these profiles most probably did not invent them him or herself, but copied them from somewhere in good faith.  That tells you that others will want to do the same.  Having a record of the legend and what makes it legendary will explain to them why they should not!

My thanks also for this project.  I have no doubt there are numbers of other legends waiting to be identified in the early-year profiles.

by Jack Day G2G6 Pilot (337k points)
edited by Jack Day

I was planning of linking Bořivoj to his legendary ancestors from the biography. I'm just not too happy with the {{questionable}} template. I think we need a different template for legends. It seems that Wikipedia has something along the lines of my thoughts going: This is how they mark legendary people now:

Stub icon

Well, yes, within the biography is exactly where the linkage should be.

I guess the issue comes down to whether the people may actually have existed, but there is just no documentation available, or whether their actual existence is doubtful or totally unlikely.  Or maybe a-historical.  I'm glad we don't allow dates before 0 CE, so we don't need to argue about the historicity of Adam and Eve!

 As for this image to mark legendary people, I suppose if "legendary" is taken to mean "larger than life", then perhaps well and good, but if it is taken to me "fictitious", then I suspect the Welsh would be offended! Stub icon

I suppose the Přemyslid legendary ancestry is not really disputed in the sense that serious historians (or genealogists for that matter) claim they existed while others deny that point. Everybody agrees they are legendary. They first appear in the Chronica Boëmorum of Cosmas of Prague in 1119 and have made their way from there into the literature.

I added the Welsh dragon only because it has appeared in the English Wikipedia for legendary people. I guess any other fire-breathing dragon image would do. :-)

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