Need some expert genealogists and historians for a royal line in 1700s

+6 votes
533 views
I have been working on my family book and I started working on all the known patriot and notable ancestors in my bloodline, there is this 1 ancestor that is very interesting and he is on the dar/sar patriot index, but as of 1990 they put the FAMPCS redline code on the record.

I wrote a very detailed bio about him based on facts and documentation and he really was royalty, his sister married a grandchild of king Louis XIV and her son voted for the death of king Louis Xvi

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Garoutte-128

We really need to fix this guys dar entry

So I'm making a whole project for him.

Please help
WikiTree profile: Michael Garoutte
in Requests for Project Volunteers by Mister Johnson G2G1 (1.1k points)
retagged by John Atkinson

Don't know if it helps but here's a book with some info Catholics and the American revolution

On the profile you say that you are 'gathering all authentic facts about this ancestor.' I think that it's probably important to double check the ones you have, so that you can sort the wheat from the chaff!

I tried to find info from French sources but I have to say that most of the hits for this family come from the US. If I restrict my searches to France then there is very little. ( one unsourced tree on geneanet )

However, the parish records for La Major in Marseille are online so you can check those. (unindexed though so you will have to check image by image and as is typical they aren't easy to read) There is a date for his baptism given in this book http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Catholics_and_the_American_Revolution_1000442107/373

.http://doris.archives13.fr/dorisuec/jsp/system/win_main.jsp

The records of the  birth of the children of Antoine Garoutte and Anne d'Lascour that you mention  may be impossible to find since the hotel de ville was totally destroyed in 1871 with the loss of both parish registers until 1792 and civil registers from 1793 to 1853  However, the wiki article mentions that service records may reproduce this information

.https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registres_paroissiaux_et_d%27%C3%A9tat_civil_%C3%A0_Paris

and the site mentioned for service records http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/?q=content/les-instruments-de-recherche

If you can't find what you want online, (and the online search engine is not working at the moment, they might be able to tell you something about the father Antoine and his family

 

I did have a look for the Chateaux you mentioned. The first at Lapalud,   appears to have been built at the end of the  nineteenth century by a French artist and was called 'le Jardin' by him then but is called Chateau Garoutte today.http://www.mairie-lapalud.fr/les-personnalites/le-peintre-rodolphe-julian/ .(it was on the market in 2010 according to one 'hit' ) I  couldn't find a Chateau Jaconere or Jacomere (with or without accents),

 

Well I'm finally done with that essay. I exhausted all sources I could find online I thnk. The baptismal records are online in fact in the aix-marseille university and also in the parish records available on the Jeanne Garoutte genealogy site. I have to take a break from all my genealogy projects now as I have to focus on my own education.

That castle in lapalud did belong to the Garoutte family BTW. The site has their facts wrong. There's another one in Signes which is a commune of Marseille. That castle is f***ng huge!

I found out we are related to the 6th earl Capel of Essex and the Count Auguste d'espinassy who held a peerage in France and england. Lots of royalty very interesting stuff.

 I'm sorry  if you didn't find the above any help but still think you should be  looking at French records to confirm the earlier parts of this profile.

The records for the church you mentioned are  certainly in the departmental archives. http://www.archives13.fr/archives13/CG13/pid/478  The link above was more direct but doesn't work now . You need to click on  Lien vers le site externe 'Accéder aux registres paroissiaux et état civil'  and then go through the search process The register for 1650 is viewable and so you should be able to find the entry..

Re the castle Garoutte, the site linked was the one run by the Marie ie the people who hold the local records and they are certainly right about the building that is called this today. I notice that a  picture of that chateau  has been put on  the findagrave site  (think it's from the house sale site)  That picture is  most definitely a typical 19th Century maison de maitre  http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=157916768&PIpi=135350411  

 I'm still having problems finding  your  other castles.  Do you have a picture or link to the large one?

 This time I did  find one mention of a château de la Jaconnière .This was in  Signes(Var). Signes is a village that is 45km from Marseilles. This castle doesn't as far as I can see exist today and there is no mention of who owned it. 

There is an official French list of historic monuments  It can be searched for Chateau (or ruin or whatever)  in the Var , in  Marseille  or  Signes  etc     http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/merimee_fr?ACTION=NOUVEAU&USRNAME=nobody&USRPWD=4%24%2534P 

  

I took control of the findagrave months ago and I wrote what is presently on the findagrave entry but that needs to be updated and I can't do that now because I got locked out of my email. I need to contact the administrator of the site and have him transfer control to my new account so I can correct it.

The Garoutte mansion is in signes, France. The Garoutte's lived in that mansion near the other Barons of Provence the d'espinassy de venel family and Magdeleine married Cesar Antoine d'espinassy de venel. Trust me the castles are still there. I will get a picture of them put up on the wikitree page.

Antoine Garoutte was a Baron of Signes also and an Admiral. His father was attorney general of Provence france and their great great grandfather was a senator of France. Provence was colonized by nobles of Rome long ago. Each territory in France was ruled by the noble families of that area and unified under the throne of France.
https://books.google.com/books?id=XUtBAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA189

There's another reference to the Castle de LA Jaconniere I found.
It doesn't matter anyway that the parish was burned down. The birth records first of all are on file in the city hall in Paris France and in Marseille France they are certified by the mayor, secondly the baptismal and chrismation records are in the records of the Aix-Marseille university. I have copies of all of the records.
I notice that you have changed the link for this family to the royal family of France, from Louis XIV to Louis XIII, but this must still be incorrect as Louis XIII only had 2 sons, both legitimate; Louis XIV and his brother Philippe, Duc d'Orleans.

Did you mean a different Louis?  Or are you suggesting that Louis XIII wasn't an ancestor but they were linked in some other way?
I looked it up for you  The baptism is there so you can now cite it rather than  secondary source used .  Archives 13,  Bouches de Rhone  Marseille (Bouches-du-Rhône, France),NOTRE-DAME DES ACCOULES, Acte:Baptême,1750  image 42  (you cannot link to it directly)

The name seems to be spelled as Garoute, the date seems to be the 13th and not the 12th . (top of page reads  ''du treizieme avril 1750'' and this baptism is the second recorded on the same day  'du dit Jour' )

Unfortunately you cannot copy the image and reproduce it on the internet  without obtaining a licence.
it could be that they baptized him on the 12th and then recorded it on the 13th
It says ne aujourd'hui ( born today), sometimes the register says ne hier (yesterday or a date)   When a child is baptised at birth in England( I'm more familiar with those registers though I live in France and read French fairly well),  it is  most often because the baby is considered to be at risk but it does seem to be a frequent occurrence in this register,
Can you go back to the record on your screen and press the print screen key on your keyboard then open paint and press control + v then save the picture and upload it here so I can see the record myself.

 Can't  as there are clear conditions about reproduction, ( I checked before; licence  which costs money per page, per view, per year.)

 To view for yourself go to  http://www.archives13.fr/archives13/CG13/pid/478

In red it says lien vers le site externe. Click on this

Choose  Marseille and  Registres paroissiaux et d'état civil

press rechercher.

From the first dropdown list choose Notre Dame des Accoules., tick bapteme, for date put = 1750  Click Rechercher

Next screen  tick box (there is only one)   click binoculars. 

Next screen (images)  put 42 in page box, press return .

It's the third entry on the left hand page.

(that sounds dreadfully complicated but it's not!) By the way,this is not the register of  La Major  which is the cathedral.)

so maybe the copies were put in DES Accoules. I trust the author of the book. She originally got the records from the Mayor of Marseille and he certified the records.. Fancois Barby is the assistant to the Mayor of Marseille right now and he put out the records for the La Major baptisms and Garoutte's records are all there. Remember that they rebuilt the parish after the french revolution because it was burned down.

2 Answers

0 votes
Fabulous Pedigrees has a lot of Nobility Records.My Morgan Family

came from Wales,lots of nobility in it.Most of them were well documented.

But a lot of info you will see is off family trees.Are, out of some book put

together by a geneologist,a lot of info,but seldom documented.Had a

document on an ancestor,said he was the son of.But after many days of

research turns out he was son in law.So be carefull.And many people

would marry cousins,with same surname.
by Wayne Morgan G2G6 Pilot (913k points)
Are you saying you will help me? I wrote the bio for him based on whatever actual facts I could get then I reasoned with logic. I'm trying to piece together what happened to a ship that his father Antoine departed Marseilles on in 1753 named The Great Saint Simon, I found 2 books that claim their town and inlet in canada now named saint simon was named after a French War ship by the name of Saint Simon that went in their to try and escape pursuing british in circa 1760.

 

Is this the same ship? would there have been more than 1 french ship named Saint Simon between 1753 and 1760? How can I figure out if that's the ship?

 

I investigated the death of Antoine Garoutte and I haven't found any evidence that he died in France, there are no records that I could find.
and he was commanded by King Louis XV by letter from Versailles to leave Marseilles on the ship the Great Saint Simon.
+4 votes
Hello Christopher

I'm not sure what sources you are using to support your statement that the d'Espinassy family were descendants of Louis XIV, but I'm almost certain that it is incorrect.

They definitely didn't marry any of his legitimate descendants, and although Louis XIV had many illegitimate children, they also married into Princely or Royal families.

I am working off memory, and can double-check but I think there has been a mistake somewhere.  It is possible they were related in some 'six degrees of separation' type arrangement, or were descendants of some earlier King Louis, but I think not to Louis XIV.
by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (428k points)
I did come across something online that stated the family were descended from Louis XI of France, which although it didn't show the exact line, seems at least to be more reasonable.  He had 4 illegitimate daughters and 3 of them married into the French nobility.
The book: The French and American History of Michael Garoutte and His Descendants said one of the authors went to france and talked with a descendant of this d'espinassy line in his own castle and he told her they were descended from Louis XIV. There is a chateau Garoutte in Signes actually, and the one in Lapalud was absolutely not built in the 19th century, i'm certain they have the facts wrong about that.

In the bio i provided a link to the book that has the marriage record for Madeleine and Cesar, the book also says he was a Knight of Saint Louis, and you couldnt be one of those unless you were part of the Royal Family, or an Officer of the King and of the Nobility.

And do not go by the wikipedia page for the Knights of Saint Louis because that article is almost completely incorrect. I know this because I asked the Grand Knight of the Order of Knights that I belong to in the Catholic Church.

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