Descendants of Henry Howard, 22nd Earl of Arundel

+9 votes

Henry Howard, 22nd Earl of Arundel had 9 sons, two of which were Catholic clerics, Philip Howard, who was a famous Cardinal, and Francis Howard, a monk who died in Belgium in 1683. He also was the father of Edward Howard, the great-grandfather of Thomas Howard, who famously renounced succession to the Duke of Norfolk in favor of the descendants of Edward's younger brother Bernard, who incidentally was younger than Francis.

I've disconnected twice Francis Edward Howard , who supposedly emigrated to North Carolina from England and there were no sources in that profile that have any connection to the House of Howard, but is common at other geneology sites e.g. findagrave. I think if Henry and Elizabeth are PPP that will prevent the reconnection but I don't know what to do with Francis Edward Howard, any suggestions? I put notes in the profiles, and updated the bios - but I can't find anything credible for Francis Edward Howard.


WikiTree profile: Francis Howard
in Genealogy Help by Kirk Hess G2G6 Mach 6 (64.7k points)
retagged by John Atkinson

6 Answers

+3 votes
Hi Kirk

I have PPP'd both Henry and his wife Elizabeth, but I'm not sure it will help much, it only protects their respective LNABs.

I can only suggest that you move the Research Note further up, so it is more visible, even above the Biography heading, and perhaps add a 'please don't re-attach them as the parents of this profile' or something similar.

I've added a couple of tags to your question as well, (I'm presuming that North Carolina is part of the Southern Colonies project but I could be wrong) perhaps someone will have more information about Francis Edward Howard and add to his biography.
by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (537k points)
+3 votes
Parent-child connections are stored at the child end.  PPP on the child blocks editing of either parent, except by the PM on the child, who is supposed to be installed by the project (previous PMs being removed).

The system protects children from having dubious parents attached.

It doesn't do anything to protect parents from having dubious children attached.  They don't get edited, so they don't get consulted.

But in this case I suspect the answer is to merge Francis Edward away into Francis and detach his sons, they being the ones with unknown parents.  Though they'll get reattached.

As for Mary, Chowan is a county in NC, named for the Chowanoc tribe.
by Living Horace G2G6 Pilot (572k points)
0 votes
There is no credible evidence as he was disavowed for some reason.  Guesses?  

 A bastard?

Did something horrendous?

Needed to escape the law?

Who knows
by Dianne Farquharson G2G Rookie (230 points)
Sorry Dianne, but all of those options would result in some sort of record and there are no records at all that link Francis Edward Howard to either the Dukes of Norfolk/Earls of Arundel or any other English noble family.
I noticed he's connected again; he's re-disconnected. It doesn't seem credible to me he's a legitimate son with the same name as a known divine and not Catholic.

Illegitimate son (illegitimate son of Cardinal Howard!) or fleeing from Cromwell are fun theories. There's probably a lot of East-Anglian yeoman Howards from various collateral branches - that's probably the more likely explanation for his ancestry.
Actually there still seems to be no evidence at all from North Carolina - nothing to say that he or his wife ever existed or that their alleged children ever met.
0 votes
The only way to prevent Edward Francis Howard from being re-connected to incorrect parents is to PPP his profile, but for this he must fit into a project.

Once the profile is project protected parents can only be added by the profile manager(s), a leader or a project coordinator.

Concerning notifications - they are received only on one side. If someone starts from one of the parents and connects the child from there, the change appears in the changes tab of the parent profile and the profile manager(s) of the parent can see it on their feed. If it's done the other way around (parents added to the child) the change will not be recorded on the parents' profiles and their managers will see nothing in their feed. See
by Isabelle Martin G2G6 Pilot (481k points)
From RJ's comment above it appears as if Edward Francis Howard may never have existed so possibly he could end up in the Disproven project?
John and Isabel, that's the solution I strongly favor.  People keep believing wrong things about Francis Edward Howard, so we need to keep the profile with a big glaring warning on it.  It needs to PPP'd, and by the Disproven Existence Project.  

it needs to acknowledge and reference some of the popular genealogies where he shows up -- Ancestry, Geni, FindaGrave, etc.  I know Geni likes to link back to the parallel WikiTree profile, so that will help straighten out Geni as well.  

The profile can have discussion of some of the clues that tell you it's a bad profile even in the absence of documentation:  one of them is that in this time period, middle names were rare.  The minute you see "Edward Francis Howard" your eyebrows should go up.  

There are fake Howard descendants in Maryland as well.  Real Howards, but fake descendants of the Arundels.  The fakery is more plausible because we have an Anne Arundel County.
If the case is made, with special G2G post and "Edward Francis Howard" disconnected from children as well as parents, then yes, of course he could be adopted by the Disproven Existence project.

I could only have an administrative role in this however, because obviously I'm not comfortable enough with the time and place to argue the case for Disproven Existence.
0 votes

Find-A-Grave #: 94924840, more info there

Hon. Francis Edward Howard was the son of the 22nd Earl of Arundle, Henry Frederick Howard (b.1608 d.1652), and Lady Elizabeth Stuart/Stewart (b.1610 d.1674) of England. Francis Edward Howard was born in Middlesex England 1640, and died in 1722 in Bertie County, North Carolina.
Francis' maternal Grandparents were Esme' Stuart, 3rd Duke of Lennox, and 2nd Baroness Katherine Clifton. His paternal Grandparents were Thomas Howard, 21st Earl of Arundel, and Alethea Talbot.
Francis E. Howard had 8 brothers and 3 sisters
Thomas Howard
Henry Howard, FAG#29800985
Philip Howard
Charles Howard
Anne Howard
Catherine Howard
Talbot Howard
Edward Howard
Bernard Howard
Esme Howard
Elizabeth Howard
Some folks think that Francis left England due to his low inheritance. He came to Virginia, and later moved to Bertie County, North Carolina, USA.
Francis Edward Howard married Mary Chowan, and they had a son named James Obadiah Howard born in 1660 that married Sarah Titus.
From NC State Dept. of Archives and History, NC WILLS, 1663-1789
Vol. 15, page 3. Will of JAMES HOWARD, Oct. 6, 1729
In the name of God Amen. James Howard of Bertie Precinct in North Carolina, Gent. The sixth day of October 1729 - being sick in body.
Imprimis - That my just Debts and Contracts be honestly paid.
To my beloved wife Sarah - that part of the plantation whereon I now live
being in Bertie Precinct, containing about 300 acres of upland and also half
the meaders ground with all the buildings and appurtenances there to
belonging - beginning at the Black Walnut Branch at ye mouth thereof and so running up the north side to a marked white oak standing near the line of the plantation afad and from thence by a line drawn through the plantation afsd and through the Land I bought of Richd WILLIAMS to the head line thereof and that equal division of the same be made in two parts. That my wife afsd have the improvements as afed on her part of the afsd division. To hold the same land and premises with the improvements and profits during her widowhood and provided she marries before my son Solomon comes of age twenty years then my will is that she may live on the land afsd committing no waste & keeping ye plantation & buildings in good repair until my afsd son sollomom arrives to the age of twenty years.
And athe afsd land & premises after my wife's Decease or widowhood or at his arrival to ye full age of twenty years which shall first happen I give my
afsd son Sollomon & to the heirs of his body - and for want of such heirs I
give and bequeath the afsd land etc to my son Edward & to his heirs lawfully begotten - and for want of such heirs I give and bequeath the land etc to my son John and to the heirs of his body lawfully begotten.
To my son James Howard - a plantation & improvements lying in Nansemond County Virginia, near the plantation of John SPEIGHT, which plantation I had with my beloved wife Sarah. To my son James Howard a plantation joyning upon my Mannor Plantation & my brother Edward Howard, containing 150 acres on the East side of the Black Swamp Branch - but if my son James is disposed to sell
the afsd land then my will is that if he sells it to either of his brothers
that hath land adjoining upon the afsd land then in such case I give the afsd
land to my son James.

by Vicky Parrott G2G6 (6.1k points)
Thanks, Vicky.  This points out some useful information about Find-a-Grave.  First, it doesn't cite sources, so you have no idea where their information comes from.  It may be true, it may not be true.  You don't know.  Secondly, this one is unusual in that it does include a whole will, which probably is authentic.  But notice that the will reflects the actual naming practices of that time period -- it doesn't show middle names.

Find-a-Grave is most useful for people who lived later and they can show an actual tombstone carrying the information, and then for parents link to a page showing the tombstone of the parents.  Then you know where they got the information.
0 votes

James Obadiah Howard's profile is here

it used to be connected as a son of Edward Francis Howard-1691 and "Mary Chowan", but was disconnected.

His will is given in full on the profile, but I haven't seen a published source.

He mentions a wife Sarah, a daughter Sarah, apparently unmarried, and 5 sons, in no particular order: Solomon (under 20), Edward, John, James, Samuel.  Also four brothers: Edward (overseer), Stephen, Joseph, John (overseer).  He had bought land in Bertie Precinct NC from the first 3 of those.

James also says he and his wife had a plantation in Nansemond Co VA, so the 5 brothers weren't just a bunch of kids who moved south with their parents.  Probably they were all old enough to grab land on arrival.

Looks like James and his brothers were born in VA and all moved south to pick up land in NC.  Two of them might have sold up and moved on.

I gather the Nansemond Co records went up in smoke, which is presumably why there's a brick wall here.  If he'd patented the plantation there'd be a record in Richmond, but not if he bought it.

The profile of Edward Francis has him dying in Bertie, suggesting that he too is supposed to have trekked south with his alleged sons (possibly all grown up.  But the sons now attached to the profile don't include James and his brothers.

My theory is that Edward Francis was originally conjured up by the descendants of the Bertie bunch, and a random assortment of other Howards then hooked themselves on.

by Living Horace G2G6 Pilot (572k points)
Yes, I just did some editorial work on this profile.  Most of the sourcing is from Ancestry, but the Will is there and sourced to the North Carolina records location, so I'm confident of its validity.

I would imagine there are Virginia and North Carolina property records regarding the various plantations, but finding them is outside my area of expertise.  

I can certainly identify with the Howard descendants wanting to know who their ancestors are, and I'm sure in the long run they'll be happier with real ancestors than made-up ones.

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