Dutch Roots Challenge June 2016 Are Willem Hesselszoon and Dignus de Vlamingh related ??!!

Question

Hoi Allemaal - Hi All ! 

Here's our Dutch Roots Challenge for the months June, July and maybe longer 2016 !!

One of our wonderful  WikTree members was wondering about this so we decided to use this 'question-suggestion for our Challenge. And of course we hope to find the answer with the great help from our fellow members :) 

Een van onze geweldige WikiTree leden vroeg zich dit af dus we besloten om deze vraag-suggestie te gebruiken voor onze Challenge en hopen natuurlijk met de geweldige hulp van onze mede leden het antwoord te vinden :) 

Is er een connectie tussen - Is there a connection between Willem Hesselsz de Vlamingh en - and Dignus de Vlamingh ?? Dignus de Vlaming married - huwde Martha verbeek op- on 21 October, 1731, dus past hij qua tijd in de tijdlijn van - therefore he fits the timeline on Willem Hesselzoon de Vlamingh... mogelijk als zijn jongste zoon of  kleinzoon-as either his youngest son or, grandson. 

On their return to Holland in 1698, William Hesselzoon de Vlamingh retired and no further mention is made of him or his sons (or daughters), until a Dignus de Vlamingh from Holland arrived at the Cape of Good Hope....

Tijdens de terugreis naar Holland ging Willem Hesselzoon de Vlamingh met 'pensioen' en word er verder nergens meer iets over hem of zijn zoons )of dochters) vermeld , totdat er een Dignus de Vlamingh uit Holland arriveert op  Kaap de Goede Hoop

Please respond as much as possible in just one answering box, edit and update when you have added sources or profiles and or discovered something !/ Reageer zoveel mogelijk in een antwoord box, bewerk en update je antwoord als je bronnen hebt toegevoegd of als je iets hebt ontdekt ! 

Good Luck , have fun and all help is appreciated !! Succes Veel plezier en alle hulp is natuurlijk welkom !!

 

Answer 1

I don't have enough info to be confident it is the same person but there is  a Dignus de Vlaming // de Vlaminck indexed in Collectie Delft. Married in 1722 to Anna Maria van Marijenhoff, and widowed early in 1724 - I would associate this person with a 1699 baptism indexed under "Dingunes de Vlamingh" child of Tobias de Vlamingh and Adriana Bres. Considering the the child of De_Vlamingh-15 is named Tobias I think it is at least possible that the records may 'belong' to the profile.

The proposed Parents Tobias and Adriana are found in the DTB records of Schipluiden on 8 April 1698 where it is recorded that Tobias originates at Middelburg.

Comments

Archieven.nl indexes a Dingenus de Vlaming who died 1685 at Middelburg, perhaps a parent of the Tobias named above. More work would be needed to establish if the Dingenus was also the widower who married Belia Brest in 1670.

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Thanks Rob , the names sure sound right , Dignus and Martha did have a son named Tobias as well. Willem did have more children, we did not add profiles for all of them yet, and who knows maybe Willem had some siblings as well .. we also have more de Vlamingh profiles already here. The de Vlaming van Oudshoorn family for all we know could be related as well of course, at some point he decided to name himself de Vlaming(h) , 

There's a family de Vlaming van Oudshoorn here and maybe the name of the ship de Geelvinck means he (Willem de Vlamingh) was related to this de Vlamingh family also ? Aegje Cornelis de Vlamingh  Aegje married Jan Cornelisz Geelvinck ..

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No idea if this is relevant, but wiewaswie.nl has several listings for a Dingenus de Vlaming from Middelburg who worked for the VOC.

Vlaminck, de    Dingenus        Zeeland    01-01-1708    VOC
Vlaming, de    Dingenus        Zeeland    01-01-1710    VOC
'Vlamink, de    Dingenus        Zeeland    01-01-1714    VOC
'Vlaming, de    Dingenus        Zeeland    01-01-1715    VOC
Vlamink, de    Dingenus        Zeeland    01-01-1725    VOC

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I think it is, and just came across this : Voorouers van Smuts,Jan Christiaan

6.25	De Vlamingh,Dignus :­van Delft, opperstuurman H.O.I.K. [8514] × 21.10.1731 Kaapstad
6.26	Verbeek,Martha =15.06.1710 [8513]

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The site http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl has even more listed for Dingenus de Vlaming (searching for lastname Vlamin* and firstname Di*)

Two of the records, one from 1730 and one from 1732 say that Dignus has died. So it looks like we're talking about two (or more) Dignus/Dingenus de Vlaming (one from Middelburg and one from Delft). This is also supported by the functions Dignus has on the ships (would be a strange career path if this was all just one person).

Dinquit    Vlaminck    Middelburg    Oostsouburg    1691 (related?)
Dievertje    Vlaminck         Goudestein    1692 (obviously not Dingenus)
Dignus    Vlaming    Middelb.    Waarde    1703
Dignus    Vlaming    Middelb:    Diemen    1705
Dingenus    Vlaminck    Middelb.    Zeelandia    1708
Dingenus    Vlaming    Middelburg    Westhoven    1710
Dingenus    Vlamink    Middelburg    Zandenburg    1714
Dingenus    Vlaming    Middelburg    Schellenberg    1715
Dignus    Vlaming    Delft    Voorburg    1717
Dignus    Vlamink    Middelb:    D'uno    1721
Dignus    Vlaming    Delft    Barbestein    1721
Dignus    Vlamink    Middelburg    Meijenburg    1721
Dignus    Vlaming         Kasteel van Woerden    1723
Dingenus    Vlamink    Middelburgh    Rijksdorp    1725
Dignus    Vlaming    Delft    Spiering    1725
Dignus    Vlaming    Delft    Alblasserdam    1727
Dignus    Vlaming         Loenderveen    1730
Dignus    Vlamink    Middelburg    Valkenisse    1730
Dignus    Vlaming    Delft    Huis te Spijk    1732

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Yes I noticed ..tried to keep the post a bit short :P  O no I'm wrong I thought you added more from the voorouers source but it's a different source ..So even more info and a whole lot of options eeh : and it looks like he was the Opperstuurman from Delft (married Martha Verbeek)

So the one Rob found in Delft might actually be our Dignus (the one we are looking for :D) At least we now almost are certain he was from Delft ...
I guess Rob is correct and looking at all records (the link Rob provided) his occupation is:  OostIndievaarder so it all matches eeh

Just added some (possible marriage) to his profile than looked at the archive the weeskamer records, in 1736 is mentioned he was deceased , 3 pieces of Soldij bills are send over making a total of one thousand six hundred and four guilders one stuiver and 12 penningen ...Batavia is mentioned as place... so did Dingnus from Delft die in Batavia ?

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Thanks all, I appreciate you picking up and working on this - I did not know about "your" famous Dignus but if "our" Dignus could be linked to him and also our famous Gen. Jan Smuts who was the only person in his military capacity to sign the peace treaties in the 2nd Boer War, the First World War as well as the Second World Wat, it would be great!

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http://users.skynet.be/andre.both/genealogie_both_nl_ut/genea/bothvandereem2-01.htm

Mentions Tobias de Vlamingh and Adriana Bresch inheriting a house, op de Oude Delft, the same street as where the house of the VOC was located !

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Wauw that's a great source Joke ...there are  many familiar names in it and ..it has a lot of great info ...rather distracting as well  ...already looking if some of them already are present here of course :) Thanks for the great help !

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Indeed. what a great find - Both - Botha ...

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My thoughts exactly :) With sources like this we never get the Vlamingh connected . This weekend I'll try to focus on just this challenge ..

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Niek Bouvé posted some new sources for Zeeland on wikitree.

The Tholen archive in his post has some mentions of a Dignis Vlaminck.

No idea if this person is related to our Dignus, but maybe someone has access to the actual documents in the Tholen archives and can take a look.

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Thanks Joke , I just prolonged the challenge, because of  the summer and the Holidays starting soon, many people probably will have or spend less time behind the computer and at WikiTree, so maybe we can make this our summer project, it would be great if we could somehow connect some of the de Vlamingh profiles eeh :)