Not happy about what is happening AGAIN after asking a question on G2G.

+16 votes
390 views
I asked a question about categorizing Honeycuttt-407 here in G2G.  I could not figure out how to get it out of the red. I wanted to learn how it categorize it myself.  After getting good answers  here ,  I worked on it for awhile , could not get it correctly done , quit and went to bed. I wake up to find someone categorized it .  Someone didn't like it and redid it. So now I go back to work on it and someone else has changed it  YET AGAIN. Honeycutt-407 is a profile I manage , no one has worked it in quite awhile and now everyone jumps on it.  My issue is:  I am trying to learn how to do this. 2.  I am actively trying to manage this profile. And every time I mention something here all of a sudden people are all over a profile.  WHY? I know it's unsourced , I know why it should go in a category , it's OBVIOUSLY being worked.  It's it so $&@_($ important that it get done immediately.  I know actions show up and Rangers and Leaders and who ever see it and " Have jobs to do. "" I get that the site belongs to everyone and I'm really tired of being told when I speak to people about this. " well it doesn't matter who does the work as long as it gets done. "  The fact that some people on this site feel that it's ok to tromp all over others but then site " well the Honor code states we should all collaborate and cooperate ."" When what they really mean is everyone should bend over backwards to let them do what they want. This is a valid issue on this site. So please those of you who want to comment on things like : one shouldn't wikitree when angry. I'm not angry. Or I'm sorry your feeling over whelmed ,  I'm not.  Are all members equal or not?
WikiTree profile: Augustine Honeycutt
in The Tree House by Trudy Roach G2G6 Pilot (181k points)

I'm a little mystified. It looks like you had it right the first time [[Category:Unsourced Profiles]]

I'll tell you my trick. I find the category that I want, then I copy the title of the page (by highlighting and then control/command c), then paste it on the profile. In this case  Category:Unsourced Profiles  then I just put those double braces around the category [[Category:Unsourced Profiles]]

5 Answers

+3 votes
 
Best answer
Like you, Trudy, I'm one of those people that likes to understand how and why something works. I know you're working to learn the use of categories, so you're ahead of me on that one but templates I've really been putting to use. There's one that I learned about the other day that might be useful to you.

{{Profile-box|Say anything you want to say}}

You could put that template on the first line of the profile and replace "Say anything you want to say" with "I'm working on this profile and have asked how to do xxxx. Please don't do it for me as I learn best by doing things myself."

What follows is what I think about the whys and hows of templates. Feel free to ignore it if it's too basic. If I've got something wrong, please correct me.

I think of templates as a algebra formula. Anything between a double set of what we used to call curly brackets (I'm sure they have a proper name but not a clue what it is) will take place left to right.

The formula comes first (b+c*a). The difference between templates and formulas is that templates are going to do something even if the variables aren't defined. The {{Unsourced}} template, for instance, will always put the box on the profile with the default words in it AND add that profile to [[Category:Unsourced_Profiles]]. The tricky part is that if you edit the profile, you can't see the category instructions. That's built in to the automagicalness of the template instructions. (yes, spellchecker, I know you don't think that's a word)

Next comes a separator so that the template knows some variables are going to be defined. The separator is the vertical bar, also called a pipe for no reason i could ever fathom.

Now the formula is ready to know what a, b, and c stand for. In the case of the {{Unsourced}} template, you can use place names, each separated by a pipe. For instance, {{Unsourced|Missouri|Mississippi}} will create the text box, and add the profile to the [[Category:Unsourced_Profiles]], [[Category:Missouri_Unsourced_Profiles]], and [[Category:Mississippi_Unsourced_Profiles]] categories.

The problems I've run in to occur when, for instance, I use a variable that is unsupported by the template. Kind of like setting a equal to 0 in that algebra equation. The answer is always going to be zero. If the variable is for creating a category and that category doesn't exist, it's going to be red. An example would be {{Unsourced|Bermuda}} as there is not currently a [[Category:Bermuda_Unsourced_Profiles]].

I hope some of that is useful. My brain had fun thinking about the whys and hows so that I could figure out how to explain it.
by Debi Hoag G2G6 Pilot (274k points)
selected by Trudy Roach
{} set braces, for a set in math

| pipe (i.e.,conduit) because it was used to send data to another command program back in the good ole days of the command interface
Excellent! Thanks, Mikey. See, I knew there were correct names and reasons *grin* now, ask me if I'll remember tomorrow ...
I get it now Debi and Mikey.  I've also gone on line to see how my Kindle works. But this info is gaining action to the way my brain functions. Basics are good.  I told the people I taught to ride . We will start at the beginning.  I will teach you like you have no knowledge. Because we a building and need a foundation. Not because you don't the ability to ride a horse , but because I don't want to miss something important.

I'm glad it helped, Trudy. I forgot to include that you can see what variables will work in a template by checking Category:Templates

I usually ignore the subcategories and jump down to the "People or pages in Templates" section. There you'll find lots of template links. The pages that open from those links will explain what variables the template expects. There's also usually an example of what you'll see if you use the template.

+7 votes
I suppose that is part of collaboration. We all have different views, objectives and expectations. I recall receiving a snarky comment here on G2G, for answering a question and not "fixing" the issue from someone who did. I now wonder how the person who posted the question felt about the other person jumping in a doing it for them rather than just answering the question.
by James Applegate G2G6 Mach 5 (53.8k points)
+11 votes
Maybe they were trying to be helpful.
by Gillian Causier G2G6 Pilot (224k points)
I agree with Gillian. Many of the people who read other peoples' questions in G2G just want to be helpful. When we see someone ask questions that indicate that the person is struggling with one of the technical aspects of the site, it's a natural impulse to "fix" the situation to help them out. Also, often the most effective way to "explain" how to do something is to edit a profile -- and let the "Changes" page for that profile demonstrate the coding that was used.

Of course, we do have different opinions on what might need to be demonstrated on a profile. In the case of this profile, I personally don't think it was helpful to add the content 'This profile is a collaborative work-in-progress. Can you contribute information or sources?'' <!-- This comment, and everything else, can be edited or removed. --> and * ''Add [[sources]] here.'' However, I think I would have kept the Ancestry Family Tree source that pointed to http://trees.ancestry.com/pt/AMTCitationRedir.aspx?tid=35433336&pid=620 , since that's an indication of where the profile data came from -- and that URL is a working link to a private family tree that might possibly have sources available to someone who requests them.
Hi Ellen.  How do people learn if they can't do?  Is saying what the coding is helpful if some one has no idea what the coding does?  Like I said I'm very thankful for help.  But I don't want people to think I don't want to do mine own work. I very much want to. For you the most effective way is to edit the profile.  For me the most effective way is to get an explanation of the process , reading the help section doesn't always work for me , and to struggle though the process to understand how the process works. And WHY it works that way and how to adapt it to the next situation.  To me some one  doing the work , even if being helpful  , isn't collaboration .  It just makes me feel useless and stupid. Like I am wasting people's time when they have there own work to do. And believe it or not I have a very high genius I Q. Also when keeping the referee to sources others have edited them out of profiles after a merge and recommended that I remove those sources.  That's why I do that now.
Trudy, most of what I know about writing code for WikiTree comes from copying what someone else did to produce a particular result. When someone has edited one of your profiles to fix something for you, click on the hyperlink in the edit history that says what they did (for example, "edited the biography") to see a display that shows and  highlights exactly what they typed. I've found that when people try to explain code, they often leave out an important detail, or else they use terminology that their audience doesn't understand (for example, many of us don't have the same words for keyboard characters like [ and | and }), but when they show what they did, the information is much clearer.
Thank You Ellen. I had done that and got red  "Unsourced profiles" then Categories::Maintence Profiles. But not understanding what was correct from reading the help pages. And alerts with no way to understand how to change and what the result would be. It scares me to think I could badly mess up. I did notice people using [[ ]] or {{ }} and then one person saying use this one then another would edit and say use the other.  But without understanding what that code does I can't make the decision myself as what to do. It leaves me at the mercy of a machine. And causes a helpless feeling. I probably sound like an angry frustrated idiot.  But I am used to receiving info , processing it and quickly applying that info in a sensible manner and moving on. Any thanks all for your help. It may take me another generation to get this.
+5 votes
I agree. Its one thing if you're asking for someone to do the work for you, but entirely something else if your asking to learn how to do the work yourself.

I make mistakes. But I'm willing to do the work. I'd rather someone explain how to do it, rather than to do it for me -- regardless of how helpful they are trying to be. Although, at the same time, I can learn from example (seeing the work already done).

I often see questions raised, and people quick to fix the problem, rather than explain what the problem is and how to fix. Its the easier way. But I'd rather see the explanations. It helps document the process for others.
by Dennis Wheeler G2G6 Pilot (529k points)
Dennis , Well I'm fine with making the mistake if I know I made it. It the sneaky one's that get me. I guess it is how my generation worked. In all things we were taught to show the process. In math I could get the answer to problems correct in my head. The answers were just there. But fail a test because I didn't show the work.  Computer are confusing for me because the process is just taken care of. The logic behind it is not necessary , but the knowledge of how to give  the computer directions is needed. It can be learn for me I think but I need to know the WHY OF everything.
indeed :)
+5 votes
Hi Trudy,

It's seems like this is something that is important to you so my suggestion would be when you post a question in the G2G maybe cliarfy that you'd prefer someone answer your question rather than go and fix it themselves or at least give an explanation as well so you can understand what they did. :)

WikiTreers, generally, by nature, are a friendly, helpful bunch so I think unless you are specific in your posts, this will continue to be an issue.
by Eowyn Walker G2G Astronaut (1.6m points)
I think its sad that we have to take this extra step (given that the general policy of WikiTree is to "ask before edit")... but otherwise, good advice.
Eowyn ,Thank you . I have done that. And like I have said I'm very thankful for help. And we'll aware of the value of wikitree members. Thanks again.
Hi Dennis,

WikiTree encourages being bold, one reason why we have this help page: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Communication_Before_Editing.  It talks about when it's more appropriate to be bold or when to be polite.  It's hard to find a balance in collaboration.  But to the person who edited the category it might have seemed such a minor change and in their mind a helpful one so they decided to "be bold".  

And two, when someone poses a question in the G2G, I think it's not always easy to tell if they're asking for someone to step in and fix the problem or if they just want to know how to fix themselves. I didn't see the post Trudy did so I can't comment specifically on that one, but just generally I can see why someone might just make the fix themselves.

Also, it's why we always stress that we want to assume the best intentions when someone does something, not the worst.

Thanks!
I understand, and I agree... it can be difficult to find the right balance, but as that page suggest, the difference can be as simple as noticing the activity level of the manager (or the one asking the question).

Its the same problem with co-worker relationships. Its irritating when asking questions, to then have the co-worker simply fix the problem, rather than to answer the question, leaving the questioner in the dark and having to ask again the next time the problem arises. They don't realize how much work they are creating for themselves, becoming the go-to-guy, but suddenly have no time to work on their own assignments.

Sometimes people come to me and just want me to "make it go," but I've learned to always try to teach them to do it for for themselves first.
Eowyn in cased you missed it.  Im very thankful for all the work you have done on the Parker family. My step fathers father's family.
You're welcome! :)  I'm glad you are a part of WikiTree Trudy.

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