Need some help with deciphering this handwriting ...

+6 votes
286 views

Is their someone who can confirm the precise spelling of this person's - Hendrik Bernhardus Heymans (1755 - bef. 1799) - LNAB (at this moment we read "Heijmans") as well as those of the parents: see the closup of the transcription [edit: correction] - baptism text - here. The full FS image here.

The DTB (Gelders Archief):

Kind:

Henrikus Bernhardus Heijmans

Vader:

Hendrik Heijmans

Moeder:

Megtelt Buekers

We would appreciate it because we would like to profile protect the surname and also build the the family tree further into the past.

WikiTree profile: Henrikus Bernhardus Heymans
in Genealogy Help by Philip van der Walt G2G6 Pilot (158k points)
edited by Philip van der Walt
Which ever of the phonetic spellings you decided on make sure other spellings are put in the other names box (as many as you find) that way the profiles become more searchable. Certainly after mid 19th century they start to become a family name and the spelling in the record becomes of some importance.

Though transcripted correctly, surname Buekers could very well be written down incorrectly: a transposition of Beukers, a much more frequently used surname.

P.S. It seems I was right, mother's name is Beukers, see this thread.

Thanks Jan, this is exactly the reason that I put this question. After this profile has been PPP'd, we have to decide on the parents and if there are no primary records, we will have to do the nearest to correct 'primary' spelling.

@ Chris: No, this is not the correct thing to do. Only the actual variations of spelling found in primary records (per person [per profile, per generation] in that person's lifetime, should be noted, and even then it is arguable if it will increase of decrease the yield as regards searches. And definitely not the phonetic differences in the secondary sources ...

2 Answers

+4 votes
 
Best answer

Considering http://www.dutchgenealogy.nl/there-is-no-letter-y-in-the-dutch-alphabet/ I would go with Heijmans.

At a quick glance I read the mother's surname entirely different from "Buekers/Beukers"... My initial interpretation was something closer to "Buzikom" - but perhaps I have just seen the various names given on old maps for Beusichem one too many times. (see Geothesaurus entry for a number of historic spellings.)

by Rob Ton G2G6 Pilot (275k points)
selected by Philip van der Walt

And looking a little farther afield, the 12 Nov 1762 record at Doesburg for parents Hendrik and Metjen is much more legible, giving the surnames fairly clearly as Heijmans and Beukers: FS Image

And in 1770 they appear in another baptism at Breda, Noord-Brabant for son George Johannes as Hendrik Heijmans and Metje Beukers with witnesses George Sangster and Gerardine Beukers.

My speculation is that Gerardine is possibly a sister of Metje, and that George Sangster is brother in law of Hendrik Heijmans (a George Sangster married a Johanna Geertruij Heijmans at Bergen Op Zoom in 1754) Following the latter possible connection further, Johanna Geertruij Heijmans is given as being from Bommel (which could refer to a few places), Roman Catholic, and I guessed she would be around 25 years old at marriage. From this I found a baptismal record at Zaltbommel (one of the places known as "Bommel") dated 14 May 1728 for Joanna Gertrudis daughter of Jacobi Heijmans and Maria Vers(u?)et.

Bergen Op Zoom 15 Nov 1764 baptism of Wendelina Isabella daughter of Hendrik Heijmans and Metje Beukers [something struck-out]  and again Johanna Getruida Heijmans is one of the witnesses.

Nijmegen 26 Sep 1784 baptism of Maria Hendrina Heijmans daughter of Hendrik Heijmans and Megtel Beukers (Maria Hendrina married 1806 at Heerewaarden to Hessel Johannes van Gameren) * also note the annotation "NB: De vader is Roomsgezind"

I am sure between the NH and RK records there are more children to be found in the area roughly traced out by the known movements from Doesburg > Bergen Op Zoom > Breda > Nijmegen.

Yes, 

We can insert Venlo: Doesburg > Bergen Op Zoom > Venlo > Breda > Nijmegen.

Venlo 3 Aug 1766 baptism of Gerharda Jacoba daughter of Hendrik Heijmans and Metje Beukers, witnesses Hendrick Hacker and Margrita Beukers.

And more in Nijmegen:

Nijmegen 3 Dec 1780 baptism of Johanna Gerdina, daughter of Hendrik Heijmans and Megtelt Beukers, witnesse Johan Jorge Backer, Engelina ten Drental. Here too the comment: "de vader roomsch"

Nijmegen 16 Apr 1783 baptism of Rudolphina Elisabeth, daughter of Hendrik Heijmans and Mechel Beukers, witnesses Rudolphus Heijmans ("absent"), Margrieta Beukers. Once again father "roomsch gez."

Nijmegen 4 Feb 1787 baptism of Adriana Elizabeth, daughter of Hendrik Heijmans and Metje Beukers, witnesses Adam Hildebrand, Elizabeth Heijmans. Here too "Vader Roomsch".

Jan - Awesome find with the Venlo record (and you beat me to posting the other Nijmegen records ;) )

Summarizing the children of Hendrik Heijmans and Metje Beukers listed in the preceding posts, and adding a few more details:

  1. Henricus Bernhardus (bap. 14-01-1763, Doesburg)
  2. Wendelina Isabella (bap. 15-11-1764, Bergen Op Zoom)
  3. Gerharda Jacoba (bap. 03-08-1766, Venlo // m. 20-02-1793, Bergen Op Zoom; spouse: Fredrik Albers)

    possibly 1 missing child born about 1768?

  1. George Johannes (bap. 31-12-1770, Breda)
  2. Dina Maria (bap. 25-03-1773, Breda)

    possibly 1-3 missing children born 1774 to 1779

  1. Johanna Gerdina (bap. 03-12-1780, Nijmegen // m. 19-11-1828, Rotterdam; spouse: Izaak Romeijn // d. 01-12-1863, Rotterdam)  
  2. Rudolphina Elisabeth (bap. 16-04-1783, Nijmegen)
  3. Maria Hendrina (bap. 26-09-1784, Nijmegen // m. 18-05-1806, Heerewaarden; spouse: Hessel Johannes van Gameren // d. 02-12-1822, Tolkamer(Rijnwaarden))  
  4. Adriana Elisabeth (bap. 04-02-1787, Nijmegen // bur. 25-04-1787, Nijmegen)

Based solely on naming patterns I am thinking Jacobi Heijmans and Maria Versuet [Verzoet?]) may not be Hendrik's parents and that the relationship of baptismal witness Johanna Geertrui Heijmans might be cousin rather than sibling <more evidence needed>

Thanks for the amazing research Jan & Rob ...

Rob, nothing awesome about Venlo: just Googled "Metje Beukers"...

Update of your summary:

Summarizing the children of Hendrik Heijmans (bur. 5/12/1809, Nijmegen) and Metje Beukers (bur. 30/4/1804, Nijmegen) listed in the preceding posts, and adding a few more details:

  1. Henricus Bernhardus (bap. 14-01-1763, Doesburg)
  2. Wendelina Isabella (bap. 15-11-1764, Bergen Op Zoom)
  3. Gerharda Jacoba (bap. 03-08-1766, Venlo // m. 20-02-1793, Bergen Op Zoom; spouse: Fredrik Albers // d.     31-03-1833, Delft)

    possibly 1 missing child born about 1768?

  1. George Johannes (bap. 31-12-1770, Breda)
  2. Dina Maria (bap. 25-03-1773, Breda // bur. 26-12-1783, Nijmegen)

    possibly 1-3 missing children born 1774 to 1779

  1. Johanna Gerdina (bap. 03-12-1780, Nijmegen // m. 19-11-1828, Rotterdam; spouse: Izaak Romeijn // d. 01-12-1863, Rotterdam)  
  2. Rudolphina Elisabeth (bap. 16-04-1783, Nijmegen // bur. 25-08-1783, Nijmegen)
  3. Maria Hendrina (bap. 26-09-1784, Nijmegen // m. 18-05-1806, Heerewaarden; spouse: Hessel Johannes van Gameren // d. 02-12-1822, Tolkamer(Rijnwaarden))  
  4. Adriana Elisabeth (bap. 04-02-1787, Nijmegen // bur. 25-04-1787, Nijmegen)

Based solely on naming patterns I am thinking Jacobi Heijmans and Maria Versuet [Verzoet?]) may not be Hendrik's parents and that the relationship of baptismal witness Johanna Geertrui Heijmans might be cousin rather than sibling <more evidence needed>

I wonder if this research may also be broadened to solve the conundrum of http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/268597/could-familial-connection-might-these-profiles-duplicates there seemed to have been two Heymans with exactly the same name around the same time - one Hendrica was baptised around nine months after the one VOC sailor "disappeared" (Hendrik Hijman went was reported absent on 15 May 1787) in the Far East, the other one arrived after Hendrica's (Hijmans-8)' birth.

Could they indeed have been the same person? Is there another baptism of a person of the same name from the same period?

And knocking it out of the park.... 3 more children born at Maastricht in 1774, 1776, and 1778...

#Gardina Johanna (bap. 07-12-1774, Maastricht)
#Jacobus Johannes (bap. 25-02-1776, Maastricht)
#Johan Georg "Jan" (bap. 13-05-1778, Maastricht // d. 21-03-1817, Nijmegen)

A child baptised around 1768 would 'complete the set'.

(Names and dates have been added to the parents profiles - Also nNote Metje Beukers now has a profile that can be adopted.)

Once again thanks so much Rob - you are a star!
Rob, indeed out of the park, fantastic!
+5 votes
Surnames in the past were often spelt as the person who recorded them heard them. Heymans and Heijmans have the same pronunciation as does Hijmans. You might even find other transcriptions.
by Susan Scarcella G2G6 Mach 7 (71.0k points)

We are well aware of that Susan. I need another expert eye look at the primary record (not the transcription[s]) to validate the exact spelling of the lnab as that is what is the standard by which WikITree protects the profiles. If not a primary baptism record, then if possible another primary record such as a marriage records.

Transcriptions are also secondary sources.

I think that was what Susan meant with transcription was the conversion from the spoken word to writing. In that sense even primary records are transcriptions.

The WikiTree emphasis on LNABs is in this respect more than a little unhistorical.

Hi Eva, the definition of transcribe / transcription can also mean ....

transcribe ‎(third-person singular simple present transcribes, present participle transcribing, simple past and past participle transcribed)

  1. To convert a representation of language, typically speech but also sign language, etc., to another representation. The term now usually implies the conversion of speech to text by a human transcriptionist with the assistance of a computer for word processing and sometimes also for speech recognition, the process of a computer interpreting speech and converting it to text.

In other words a conversion from a near intelligible squiggly handwriting to a clearer modern day writing to make sure that what is written is also how it is understood and meant to be understood. And such a transcription then becomes a secondary source [indeed! correctly argued ...] and this is the reason we have to validate these multiple "interpretations" of the written text with collaborative agreement.

Whether it is unhistorical (whatever is meant by that) or not, it is a standard that has been chosen because we had tens of thousands of duplicates before in the past and we have tens of thousands of less duplicates after having chosen 1 criterum to which we can hold / test every validation .... that is the criterum that the earliest recorded [on text] for any one person [per profile, per generation] for any name be the LNAB for which that LNAB gets protection after collaborative agreement. I know there are also (see other G2G feeds in this regard) arguments against this (such as cultural and linguistic), but this works in our project, besides being the norm for WikITree.

Indeed, that is what I meant. If the bearer of the name gave his/her name to a clerk, then it could be recorded in one way, but another way when recorded by someone else. Unless the person wrote their own name down, which was rare, you are stuck with variant spellings. Even within one country, there are accents which can impinge upon a clerk's ability to hear what name it is. What is the 'right' way to record the name? Who knows? Even the nobility had their names spelt in many and varied forms, so what hope had the rank and file. IMO, you write it down as the generation wrote it, which means that father and son may have variations on a name, but that is more accurate.

I see how you could have misunderstood - I made a mistake and have now corrected it:

see the closup of the transcription [edit: correction] - baptism text - here. The full FS image here.

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