Shall we remove the father and birth location for Andrew Ward-424?

+10 votes
According to Robert Charles Anderson's Great Migration Begins, pages 1918-1921, the origin of Andrew Ward is unknown. Anderson states "Early accounts of the origin of Andrew Ward claimed that the family was from Homersfield, Suffolk, but no evidence of the family has been found there." Anderson said that Jacobus suggested searching in the area of Dedham, Essex because that was the home of Ward's wife Hester Sherman-228. I recommend that we remove the father attached to this profile, and change his birth year to 'about 1603' with no location, to agree with the information in the GMB. Does anyone disagree?
WikiTree profile: Andrew Warde
in Genealogy Help by Kay Wilson G2G6 Pilot (222k points)
FYI: The latest comment on this post reminded me that I photographed a monument to Andrew Ward at the Old Burying Ground in Fairfield, CT a few years back. I'm working through a bunch of cemetery pictures lately, and so I pulled that one out and added it to the profile. I thought it more suitable as the primary picture than those handwritten notes, so it is now the primary photo. (My great grandfather was a member of the Association of Descendents of Andrew Ward, who erected the monument in 1907. I have the certificate to prove it.)

Not an resolution to the question at hand, but still an improvement to the profile.
Thank you - that is a very nice addition to the profile.

2 Answers

+5 votes
The PGM project is in shambles. The PGM leaders should have responded to this back in July 2016 and removed these parents. The is a well established fraud. I'm just going to go ahead and add these notes to the profile and remove the current parents. Sorry you did not get a response to your previous research.

Notes on the fraud:

In 1995 Robert Charles Anderson in the Great Migration begins stated that the origins of Andrew Ward of Connecticut are still unproven but cites Jacobus's Families of Old Fairfield which called out a fraud stating that he was related to a noble family from Homersfield, Suffolk, England and also to an article in The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record pointing to the correct famly.<ref>Robert Charles Anderson, The Great Migration Begins: Immigrants to New England, 1620-1633 , 3 volumes (Boston 1995) 1918-21</ref> [ See this link to Anderson's article under the Associations section]. In the erroneous Ward genealogy Andrew is stated to be the Andrew Ward of Homersfield, Suffolk, England son of Richard Ward of of Gorleston or Homersfield and a fictional wife named Anne Guiville with a long noble lineage. Further Richard Ward is styled a knight which is a complete fraud. In Families of Old Fairfield Jacobus writes:

" of Richard Ward of Gorleston or Homersfield have been investigated. No such person as Sir Richard Ward, Kt. was found; no Anne (Guiville) Ward. No Gunville family existed in that vicinity as lords of the manor; and every reference given has proved to be fictitous. It is likely that these statements were the invention of a fraudulent genealogist, innocently accepted by members of the Ward family, through whom they found their way into the book."

[ The full section of the Ward family written by Jacobus can be read here].

J. Henry Lea and J. R. Hutchinson in The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record, Volume point out that Andrew of Andrew Ward of Homersfield, Suffolk, England son of Richard Ward of of Gorleston or Homersfield had died in 1615 and therefore couldn't be the immigrant:

"It is also noteworthy, in further contravertion of that erronious derivation, that we find in the Parish Registers of St. Mildred's Cornhill, London, the burial of a Mr. Andrew Warde, gent., 23 January, 1615,f who was probably the son of that Richard Ward of Homersfield and Gorleston, Suffolk, who was so lightly accepted as the American Emigrant without a scintilla of evidence beyond the Christian name.<ref name=NYGBR>J. Henry Lea and J. R. Hutchinson, CLUES PROM ENGLISH ARCHIVES: CONTRIBUTORY TO AMERICAN GENEALOGY in The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record, Volume 1 through present (New York, NY: NYGBS, 1913) 44:119-21</ref>

And then goes on to present strong evidence that the immigrant was related to Stephen and Joyce (Traford) Ward who had a son Richard of Faxton, co. Northampton, whose will in 1640 named various relatives, including a brother Andrew.

"If further confirmatory evidence were needed of the derivation of the Wethersfield people from the Braffield stock, we find it in the constant recurrence, among the American descendants, of the Christian names of the last mentioned English family, as shown in the will, every one of which is repeated and notably the very unusual ones of Ambrose, Andrew, Richard, Alice, Grace and Margery, while those of Stephen, Robert, Daniel and Isabell of the recorded pedigree also appear. All of them but Richard and Andrew being conspicuous by their absence from the Homersfield pedigree."<ref name=NYGBR>

[ The entire article CLUES PROM ENGLISH ARCHIVES: CONTRIBUTORY TO AMERICAN GENEALOGY in The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record in has been uploaded in PDF here]. [ The article is also on Google Book].
by Living Baker G2G6 Mach 4 (43.9k points)

Roland, the leaders of the PGM project are not responsible for any restrictions about editing relationships. If a profile is "Project Protected" the following rules apply:

What is Protected on a PPP?

Merge Protection:

  1. The WikiTree ID of a PPP is protected. If any new duplicates are identified, they must be merged into this profile. A PPP cannot be merged-away.
  2. Managers of merged-in profiles do not automatically become managers of a PPP.

Parent Protection: The parents of a PPP are also protected. You need to be a Profile Manager, Project Coordinator, or Project Leader to edit them.

Not every profile within a project needs to be protected, and many are not. Profile managers or project leaders can request project protection for profiles, and then WikiTree Leaders review and add the PPP tag if the profile meets the criteria for protection.

Regarding merges of PPP profiles, it is still the responsibility of the profile managers to approve them. WikiTree Leaders may adopt profiles and perform the merges if necessary but as far as I am aware this is not and should not be the primary method. Project leaders' approvals, unless they are also the profile managers of the involved profiles, are not required to complete merges . . . only one profile manager from each profile's approval is required. All merges must be to the PPP'd profile.

In the case of Clapp-29, from what I can see you are not representing the chain of events in this merge completely. A merge was proposed and set to "unmerged match" status in 2016 due to the conflict in information with Clapp-247. On 2/13/17 another merge was proposed providing an updated source of information, the merge was set to "unmerged match" again with a comment that the manager of Clapp-29 was waiting for a chance to review the information in the new source . . . not an unreasonable request. Given that the source book has a two week waiting period I don't see an unreasonable delay happening here. Give the manager a chance to review the source(s), if after a reasonable period, you still are having difficulty resolving this merge THEN there are procedures in place to assist with it.

Please remember one of the core principles of the WikiTree; assume that all members are well intentioned and desire to collaborate to make this the most accurate tree available. Sometimes this means things are not done quickly, give the other members the benefit of a doubt and time to do their own research when data conflicts. Giving time and courtesy will correct more issues than impatient prodding.

John I do not require a lecture about the mechanics of PPP merges, etc. The manager of this profile Chris Hoyt is also co-leader of the PGM project. So she serves both roles: PGM leader and profile manager. She refuses over 90% of my merge requests. It is not true that Chris Hoyt has had only two weeks to review this merge. That is wildly inaccurate. She has been working on this profile for over two years - look at the log. And the merge was proposed over five months ago as I stated clearly above and you chose to ignore this fact. Joe Cochoit is a good guy and one of the best on the PGM team. But his requests are completely ignored by PGM leader Chris Hoyt as well. For evidence see Joe's first request for the merge on the profiles on the "comments section" on the right side dated *13 Oct 2016.* I've seen Chris Hoyt ignore valid PGM merge requests for over two years. So this is the norm for PGM leadership - not the exception. And as far as waiting for the source - I offered to scan them and email them to Chris Hoyt. See the merge request I made on the profile of Richard Clapp which uses the same source: It clearly says "If you'd like to see the source please let me know by email and I'd be happy to send you a PDF scan to examine." So she had an offer on the table to see the source in PDF. But she didn't even need that because I also posted numerous other sources that show the correct parents and siblings. And as far as waiting on the source directly from openlibrary instead of getting a PDF from me that just is not the case. How do I know? I put in a hold request on the same source *after* she did just so I could tell if she was still waiting on it. And I already have the source on openlibrary. So if she did have a hold on it then she has either already checked it out and returned it or she just let the hold expire. Otherwise the source would not be available to me now. So nothing that you are claiming is true. Chris Hoyt, PGM leader, systematically refuses to merge PGM profiles and refuses to remove disputed parents and children in most cases. That is just a fact. I've talking about this offline with many PGM members and most of them agree with me about this even if they don't want to come out on G2G and say it. And I don't blame them for not wanting to discuss it on G2G because they will just be ignored. 

I continue to be unable to comprehend a large fraction of the allegations I'm seeing in these G2G threads. Regarding the Clapp-4 merges,my reading of the pending merges status indicates that Chris Hoyt approved merges almost immediately after they were proposed, but there hasn't yet been a response from the Clapp-4 trusted list. And none of the profiles is project-protected.

Then let me explain it to you. I am referring to the merge request for Clapp-29 not Clapp-4. I only pointed to the note I posted on Clapp-4 as evidence that I had offered to email a PDF scan of the source Kempton Anc to Chris Hoyt. The same source is used for both profiles. What else aren't you clear about Ellen?
Well Ellen I see you changed your answer after I responded. The profile in question is Clapp-29 and it is indeed project protected.
Yes, about 30 seconds after I posted that comment, I added "And none of the profiles is project-protected."
OK Ellen so you know the merge request in question is for a project protected profile. The leadership of PGM will not remove the incorrect parent and merge the profile per requested by Joe over five months ago. I've tried to help Joe and request the merge again and yet the PGM leadership will not remove the incorrect parent or merge the profiles in question. Do you still not understand the issue? I've also brought this up on a thread including the other two PGM leaders. Yet nothing happens. The merge requests and relationship edits made by many qualified PGM members are not accepted by the PGM leadership. How does this get resolved?
I just want to remind everyone that Wikitree guidelines are very clear about the difference between "unproven" (this is when you use the uncertain button) and "disproven", which is when you remove the relationship.
And PGM guidelines are very clear in that we go with the authors of the Great Migration series unless something more recent is published in a high quality source. If the parents are in doubt in PGM they are removed. In this case The Great Migration (and Kempton Ancestry which was published about the same time by the co-author of The Great Migration) agrees with Joe's original merge request from over five months ago and shows that Clapp-29 has the wrong father Richard. Richard Clapp only named one son in his will and it wasn't Clapp-29. Nicholas Clapp did name Clap-29 in his will in England as well as the names of all his sibling. And Clap-29 is named by his siblings in New England again. The evidence presented by these authors is overwhelming. There is no doubt about the identity of his father of Clapp-29 and it is not Richard. They present further evidence that doesn't leave room for doubt. I'd call that disproven.

Actually the guidelines aren't clear at all.  It says

  Uncertain is approximately equal to unproven


  Uncertain is generally not for unlikely information

But most of the junk is both unproven and unlikely.


+4 votes
Kay and others, one JPS has added some comments on the profile that suggest this issue needs to be revisited. I've asked him to move the discussion here, but the back and forth attacking Chris and talking about another profile may deter him. I'll copy the relevant text here.
by Jillaine Smith G2G6 Pilot (934k points)

Possible proof that Anderson was inaccurate about the absence of Gunville's in the region :

"From: List of early Chancery proceedings preserved in the Public Record Office, by New York, Kraus Reprint Corp.; Great Britain. Public Record Office; Great Britain. Court of Chancery. Vol. X, no 55.

Page 171, 93-95 William GUNVILE of Gorleston, gentleman, son and heir of Richard Gunvile, v. Edward BOWES of London, haberdasher. Refusal to complete a sale of a messuage and land in Bradwell. Suffolk.

I can't find a date for this record. Robert Charles Anderson said "No Gunville family existed in that vicinity as lords of the manor."  "

Evidence supporting marriage of Richard Ward to Ann Gunville and that she was not fictional and that the Richard who married her was son of Thomas:

"The Visitation of Suffolk, 1561, page 173, recorded the following:

THOMAS WARDE of Homersfield in Suff., mar. the da. of John Hare, Doctor of the Civil Law, and of Homersfield, and had issue,-- RICHARD, son and heir, and one da.

RICHARD WARDE, son and heir of Thomas, mar. Ann, the da. and heir of Richard Gonvile of Gorleston in Suffolk, and had issue, Henry, son and heir; RICHARD, second son; Humfrey, ob sine prole; Ralfe; Andrew; Margaret, mar. to Thomas Crofts of Felmingham in Norfolk; Susan, mar. to William Pickering of Titchmarsh in Northants.

Fictional? I don't think so. Even Robert Charles Anderson can err."

Can we confirm, however, that the Richard, son of Thomas, who married Ann Gunville was the PGM immigrant?
I'm on vacation and not in a good spot to actually research but from the profile

"It is also noteworthy, in further contravertion of that erronious derivation, that we find in the Parish Registers of St. Mildred's Cornhill, London, the burial of a Mr. Andrew Warde, gent., 23 January, 1615,f who was probably the son of that Richard Ward of Homersfield and Gorleston, Suffolk, who was so lightly accepted as the American Emigrant without a scintilla of evidence beyond the Christian name [Source: J. Henry Lea and J. R. Hutchinson, CLUES PROM ENGLISH ARCHIVES: CONTRIBUTORY TO AMERICAN GENEALOGY in The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record, Volume 1 through present (New York, NY: NYGBS, 1913) 44:119-21]

There's a link to download on the profile

WikiTree's version had 2 Andrews.  Richard Ward b 1565 and his wife Ann "Sunnerville" were made to be the parents of Andrew Ward-6902 1572-1615 who was the father of the immigrant Andrew.


And Richard Ward was indeed lord of Bacon's manor in Gorleston, in right of his wife

though the Gunvilles don't seem to have been there very long.

Henry inherited it from his mother, which would explain why 2nd son Richard was occupying his father's place at Homersfield in 1612.

Date of Chancery record cited  above.  Gunville v. Bowes     1556-1558 National archives reg     C 1/1429/93-95

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