Help possibly from an aborist or an asprin! Revisited

+7 votes
116 views

Yet another question from me about correct procedure (sorry but there are an awful lot of muddles in a small group of families!)

William Pitt MP 1559-1636 was the son of John Pitt and Joan Swayne. He's a member of one of the group of Dorset families that I have become interested in. His profile was orphaned so I adopted it  .http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Pitt-70 

 There was a rather odd biography on the profile  with William and his wife Edith supposedly dying in the Indian Ocean. Strange I thought,  I should have been warned by the red flag of his wife apparently  being a Methodist in the 16h century.

 I decided to write  a quick  bio  based on the HIst of Parliament  article for him, then research further for dates of baptisms/marriages etc . I left the odd profile  as a footnote, thinking perhaps that someone had  added it mistakenly  to the wrong profile.

William Pitt's  son,  Edward was also an MP, He lived from c 1592- 1643. He bought Stratfield Saye and was buried there  His wife was Rachel Morton who died a few months before he did http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/pitt-edward-1592-1643  

Edward Pitt's son George  was also an MP. He was buried at Stratfield Saye in 1694 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pitt_(died_1694)

This wiki profile for William Pitt (Pitt-70) has  several children including two sons called Edward  (both orphaned) The other children fortunately  don't have issue linked. One Edward has the correct  birth date, no issue and no biography.

 The other Edward has  the  same  birth/death dates as the MP  and he supposedly also died in Stratfield Saye  However, h(e was  apparently a Roman Catholic magistrate who married the daughter of a Scottish Lord (a George Woodsworth) ,Their sons were  baptised  as Catholics and the source for their baptisms is given as  'RC birth records of Saye'  (in the 1620s?)The girls were christened in the Scottish Church

This Edwards's eldest son was called John He was  born in Stratfield Saye and  became 'Lord Chamberlain to the Royal House of Bristol' Another  son was  a George and strangely he shared a death date with George Pitt MP 

 I  will detach this Edward and stick with the one that has no bio. Hopefully his interesting  family will go  with him  but  as he has the same dates and places  he is surely very likely to appear as a possible  duplicate as is his son George

I suppose the real question is, is it legitimate to remove these identifiers ie dates and places from the profile?  They aren't sourced (well not with anything that stands up) 

 Beyond that,  I am totally bemused and  not sure whether to laugh or cry .  I've wasted a lot of time that could have been spent looking for  primary sources for the real members of this family.   I suppose that there must be some nuggets of truth in the lineage but it would take many many hours of work find them. Every one of the descendants that I have  checked has been orphaned and the creator seems to have started afresh.  I really think that there should be the wiki tree equivalent to a locked filing cabinet to put these profiles in until and if someone has the time, patience and  inclination to do that research (rant over, sorry far too long)

 

WikiTree profile: William Pitt
in Policy and Style by Helen Ford G2G6 Pilot (340k points)
edited by Helen Ford

1 Answer

+2 votes
Every time I run into one of these I end up thinking it would have been easier and quicker to wipe the whole lot and start again from scratch.

I've rescued Jane Savage from her captor "John George" and sent her home to her husband George.  He was the eldest son and heir, and his descendants ended up with a title.  The line is in Burkes etc but there's no attempt to pursue it on WikiTree.

Instead we've got a lot of obscure Pitts in Twickenham.  I suspect their origin is unknown and we've got them hooked up to Strathfield Saye with genealogical jump leads.

John George's "wife" Rachel Morton will be messier, as she was really his mother, or Edward's wife anyway, and her dates have been mangled.
by Anonymous Horace G2G6 Pilot (568k points)
edited by Anonymous Horace
PS I did once try to isolate and quarantine a mess instead of trying to dismantle it.  That lasted a week befoe people reconnected it, ignoring notes at the top of bios.

Thank you so much for isolating and sorting out George. I hadn't  actually realised that he was the direct ancestor of Pitt Rivers.  The family, though not the direct descendants still own vast swathes of Dorset http://www.dorsetlife.co.uk/2012/04/sturminster-newton-and-the-pitt-rivers-family/

 

Could really do with some help rather than going it alone. This family played significant roles in English history and their genealogy isn't even controversial so surely it's important to get it accurate.

I got back to this today .

Both Edward  Pitt and Edward W Pitt are at the moment still attached as sons off William Pitt and Edith Cadbury.

 After some thought, and I hope not wrongly.  I added  Rachel Morton as Edward Pitts wife (worried was creating a duplicate to a Rachel Morton purported to be the wife of Thomas, one of  Edward W Pitts sons, they  completely different dates/birthplace; though'' strangely'' one has a son with the same name as the other's grandson)

Jane Savage is now correctly  married to the George  Pitt son of  Edward Pitt and Rachel Morton  rather than George Pitt the son of  Edward W and Adelle Blythe.   Edward and Rachel  have at the moment  two sons called George,  the wrongly linked one was born too early and  in Grimethorpe, I've left a note on his profile asking if he could be unlinked. They have no other children though they should have 14 (10 sons and 4 daughters)

 Edward W Pitt  and his wife Adele  are parents of a complete set of children almost identical to those that should be attached to Edward Pitt and Rachel Morton.  However some of them  have entirely different biographies, and sometimes death details.  

  I've constructed a table comparing what should be the children of  Edward Pitt and Rachel Morton and those now attributed to Edward W Pitt and Adelle Blythe  (helped by the existence of a memorial  mentioning all the names and marriages at Stratfield Saye) 

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Research_Notes_Edward_Pitt_1592-1643

 I'm really not certain how to proceed. I could unlink all the children from Edward W  Pitt  and his wife Adelle and then  link them to Edward Pitt and his wife Rachel,then give them correct biographies and spouses (though this will certainly produce a problem with Thomas  married to his mother  Rachel Morton; the ''real'' Thomas was married to a Venables) 

 What worries me is that  at least some of  this wine making family  belonging to Edward W Pitt and Adele  presumably existed and perhaps somewhere in the biographies of the children are vestiges of real people, the trouble is I don't know where.

edited added the part in bold.

 

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