Is there any evidence that Jean Blanchard married a Micmac woman?

+4 votes
1.4k views

Jean Blanchard has this unknown Micmac woman connected to him as a wife. Does anyone know of any evidence that he had another wife besides Radegonde Lambert?

I know there's been a lot of debate about whether Radegonde was European or Native American, so is this just referring to that? In which case, this profile should be merged into Radegonde Lambert, whatever Radegonde's origins were.

asked in Genealogy Help by Lianne Lavoie G2G6 Pilot (409k points)
wrong spot sorry.

7 Answers

+2 votes
im  working  on  that  line too.. in any case  guess we are related... will let  you know  if i  do  find  some sort  of proof...

 

Deneze Lujanen
answered by

Heres a link it  might have the  Marriage license i  know there is  a test that was  done

 

 

http://www.leveillee.net/ancestry/d739.htm

 

they are on my family tree too so is  Jean Lambert and  the roys and Lejeunes and the Muis and the petitpas and the Beniots..boy its hard work trying to find all of them..anyways  i  hope i helped you

 

Deneze Lujanen[Vezeau]
All the names on your family tree are also on mine! Perhaps we are related?
How do I thank you enough for all your wonderful research! Many of the names are also in my tree and most confirmed through DNA. Thanks a million for the web link of Jul 6, 2013 - saved me much back and forth in my own research; especially re. the indian connection on my father's side of the tree! He always knew he had Mic'Mac ancestry, just didn't know when and where. He knew it was on his mother's side, and I have confirmed that here. Now, I have to research on my maternal side, as I have found an indian connection to her here on WikiTree! Of course, both my parents' ancestors families merge a few times as greats in my research!; but, I think my mother's indian connection is of a different tribe.

Sincerely,

Jeannette

P.S.: A couple of days ago, I purchased e-links to many of the books, etc. offered in Canada. Am anxious to dele into them for more answers to this confusing research - fun, though.
Looks like I have to add my name to the growing list of people who are related. Most of the surnames that have appeared on this thread appear on my tree as well.

The research I've been doing is a lot of fun but often confusing too. A lot of people seem to have married their second cousin or first cousin once removed. Adding First Nations ancestry to the mix raises more questions for me than answers.

Perhaps the bunch of us on this thread can put our heads together. I'm definitely opening to learning more.

Charles Nichols
+1 vote
As per my informations, Jeanne Ragedonde-Lambert was born between 1620-1628 at Cap de Sable in Acadia witch is a small island south of Nova-Scotia, Canada. It still have to be confirm.
answered by Pierre Thibault G2G1 (1.2k points)
+3 votes
My database shows that Radegonde Lambert's parents were Jean-Antoine Lambert and Marie Radegonde Kagijonais, a Micmac Native American. However, I show no source document for this assertion. I'm not sure where I got this information.
answered by Tom Patin G2G3 (3.3k points)
+1 vote
I don't know the answer to your question yet; but, checked how I am related to this indian woman here on WikiTree, follows:

1. Radegonde is my eighth great grandmother,

2. Martin is the son of Radegode Lambert,

3. Marie-Rosalie is the daughter of Martin Blanchard,

4. Francoise is the daughter of Marie-Rosalie Blanchard,

5. Alexis is the son of Francoise (Melanson) Theriot,

6. Rosalie is the daughter of Alexis Theriault,

7. Joseph is the son of Rosalie Theriault, (my 2nd great grandfather)

8. Magloire is the son of Joseph Collet, (my great grandfather)

9. Suzane is the daughter of Magloire Collet, (my grandmother)

10. Stanley is the son of Suzane (Colette) Martin, (my father)

11. Jeannette is the daughter of Joseph Stanislaus Martin (myself).

I will have to double-check the 'greats' to confirm a DNA connection to myself. Have a few 'irons in the fire' in relation to my ancestry; hope to finalize a lot of it in the coming year.

P.S.: My dad was always certain of indian ancestry on his mom's side of the family tree! Recently, I have also found my mom had indian ancestry too!
answered by Jeannette Saladino G2G6 Mach 1 (11.6k points)
+5 votes
According to the Mothers Of Acadia DNA site, http://www.acadian-home.org/Founding-Mothers-of-Acadia.html, Radegonde Lambert's DNA was/is X2b4 and it is EUROPEAN.

X2a1 has been found in some native American women but X2b is European See:https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/x/about/background for more information and theories.
answered by Mary Beth Mylott G2G4 (4.9k points)
Not sure specifically what I should be looking at on the article about X, but in regards to the "Native American Mitochondrial Haplogroups" one a few things caught my eye:

Estes says: "The protocol and logic for adding the Anzick results for consideration, along with other evidence is discussed in this article.  In short, for the 12,500 year old Anzick specimen to match any currently living people at relatively high thresholds, meaning 5cM or over, the living individual would likely have to be heavily Native.  Most matches are from Mexico, Central America and South America.  Many mitochondrial DNA haplogroups are subgroups of known Native groups, but never before documented as Native.  Therefore, the protocol I followed for inclusion was any subgroup of haplogroups A, B, C, D, M or X."

And then under the section for X2b-T226C is this:

    Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913
    Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes January 2015 – (1 X2b-T226T confirmed Irish, not Native)

I'm not exactly sure what the January 2015 listing is supposed to indicate. Is X2b-T226T supposed to be X2b-T226C?  I assume it was just a typo, but does this mean that 1 individual that was tested as X2b-T226C was confirmed to be Irish or...?

Also following the "in this article" link in the above "The protocol..." paragraph gets you to the following page...

New Native Mitochondrial DNA Haplogroups Extrapolated from Anzick Match Results
https://dna-explained.com/2014/09/24/new-mitochondrial-dna-haplogroups-extrapolated-from-anzick-match-results/

...where this recent comment caught my eye:

Roberta Estes on February 21, 2018 at 9:56 pm said:

If the Native American ancestor was several generations back, it’s certainly possible that you didn’t inherit any of that DNA, or not in pieces large enough to detect. As you know, There is still a lot of controversy surrounding X2b.

So it seems that X2b is still largely unsettled?

Do you know if Estes is aware of the Shawnee results? And if so, is there a section where this is discussed?
In the article about X which was a complete sequencing study that didn't involve the Americas at all, you will find no reference to the T226C mutation whatsoever. Kinda proves a complete absence of that mutation even existing in Europe. Or they excluded it knowing it was unique to the Americas. If it really had been found in the artifacts you mentioned before, they would have been aware of it and wouldn't have excluded it.

As for the Shawnee, that was an independent study done by a geologist who works with that tribe. I doubt there was any public discussion about it but she is probably aware of it.

You probably also noted that several haplogroups that were previously stated to have been native were marked as not native with no explanation at all.
Thanks for the info,

It should be noted that the article about X and all the subclades found in the old world is from 2003.

Considering how much time has passed and how evolving the field is, I don't think we can use something done 15 years ago as proof one way or the other. The X2b-T226C human DNA found in the specimens associated with the Alföld Linear Pottery may not have been known or available when that study was published.

I would like to know what Estes has to say about all of these facts about X2b-T226C. That it's been found in 2 ancient specimens (one in the Americas and one in the Old World), and has been found not only in Europeans but also Shawnee. It puts into question why it is currently only classified as European (Caucasian). It seems that at best it should be classified as undetermined at this point. Perhaps that is why just last month she said "There is still a lot of controversy surrounding X2b"...
Lol, I already tried to talk to her and she won't answer. She says what she's "allowed" to say just like when SW was "allowed" to include 400 more families after they put a limit on the number of generations you can go back to put in a claim for citizenship. (that by the way is illegal, the law is "and all their heirs forever").

From what I can understand there is a direct connection between the Alföld Linear Pottery discovery and the study that was done reading about it, the year 2003 is mentioned. They don't do studies of this magnitude for no reason. 

 

X2b T226C is included on the updated February 2016 mtDNA tree for X here:
http://www.phylotree.org/tree/X.htm

In the paragraph at the top it states:
"Coding-region mutations (np 577-16023) are shown in black; control-region mutations (np 16024-576) in blue."

T226C is in blue.

The control region mutation np 16024-576 is discussed here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27591488


"The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) control region (nucleotide position 16024-576) sequences were generated through Sanger sequencing method for 317 self-identified Kashmiris from all districts of Azad Jammu & Kashmir Pakistan. The population sample set showed a total of 251 haplotypes, with a relatively high haplotype diversity (0.9977) and a low random match probability (0.54%). The containing matrilineal lineages belonging to three different phylogeographic origins of Western Eurasian (48.9%), South Asian (47.0%) and East Asian (4.1%). The present study was compared to previous data from Pakistan and other worldwide populations (Central Asia, Western Asia, and East & Southeast Asia). The dataset is made available through EMPOP under accession number EMP00679 and will serve as an mtDNA reference database in forensic casework in Pakistan."

No mention of X2b-T226C being associated to Native Americans. No mention of the Anzick or Alföld Linear samples either.

No kidding...that's because it's not an argument about T226C's origin. It has only been found in ancient samples in this half of the world, therefore we must come to the conclusion that it is unique to this half of the world when we are speaking about peoples origins. The T226C mutation simply does not exist in any ancient sample anywhere else in the world to date. That statement was made by Estes herself in 2015, I know because I read it before it was changed in 2018.

That was the point of this whole discussion, the fact that someone inserted it into a document on the internet is hardly proof. Neither is the statement that the European people tested knew for a fact that their ancestors were all from Europe and never left Europe. Do we know that for a fact about our own ancestors? If we did we wouldn't be talking about it!

Why is it that you think that they went to such lengths to disprove this person's NA origins? A pretty costly endeavor to undertake for someone that's been dead for over 300 years...unless there something else going on!!

We could go back and forth about this forever and still not prove a thing, but I have more pressing, real life and death issues to deal with at the moment.

I asked Roberta Estes about x2b-T226C and how it relates to the Anzick sample. She was kind enough to answer my numerous questions and cleared up my confusion.

It is NOT found in the ancient Anzick sample. That is a mis-interpretation of what was put forward and what it actually suggests.

I also inquired about the Shawnee documents and the ancient human DNA associated with Alföld Linear Pottery that was found in Romania.

She was previously unaware of both of these two findings but is looking into them.

You can read our exchanges in the comments section here:
https://dna-explained.com/2016/09/14/haplogroup-x2b4-is-european-not-native-american/comment-page-1/#comment-128628

What she said was that people with that haplotype matched the Clovis sample suggesting that they were Native American. She found a person with this haplotype in Ireland whose descendant made the statement that they traced their ancestors to 1600's knew for a fact that her ancestors had never left Ireland! Yeah so now it's an Irish haplotype. As early as 1536, the ship Mighel (Michael) of Kinsale is recorded returning to her home port in County Cork with consignments of Newfoundland fish and cod liver oil. And maybe a NA maiden or two? Or maybe in one of those yearly visits they found they had produced children and brought them home? At any rate, that's hardly evidence that T226C is Irish! Also, if Jean Lambert was the only male with that name in this country who just happened to be married to a Mi'Kmaw Indian then it stands to reason that she is his daughter. Radegonde's nephew who made the deposition was talking about her husband's parents coming from France, not her and Jean. Another instance of twisting the facts to make it look like something else. Am I the only one that sees a conspiracy here?

This is a government funded project and the government doesn't want to recognize Metis people east of Ontario. Regardless of all this arguing, the Acadian presence in this country for 150 years prior to the Royal Proclamation makes them indigenous. Since it applies to "Indians or any of them" equally, it doesn't really matter whether they were NA or not, so the government is just wasting everyone's time and money with their silly argument. They were accepted by the Mi'Kmaw and regarded as Mi'Kmaw by the Mi'Kmaw which makes them culturally Mi'Kmaw. So it is not incorrect in any way to accept them as such, one thing for certain, they were not French, they were Acadian and they were Indigenous.
And really, why are they trying to re-write the history of what happened before they were even in power here? All Acadians were indigenous, and so were all the French settlers. Why do you think Quebec won the right to govern their people under French law?

Even if they agreed not to pursue further indigenous rights, that still doesn't change the RP, (which became law in the 13 colonies when it was ratified at Fort Niagara in 1764) to do that you need mutual consent of ALL involved parties. Until that happens, that is the law and the only law that applies to "Indians or any of them". All subsequent treaties and agreements need to be consistent with that 1764 agreement, if they aren't, then they are void to the point of the inconsistency.

So what does that mean? It means that all the people that were here before the RP was made were indigenous, (and all their descendants forever), they are sovereign people with their own laws customs and ways, their status is equal to that of the crown, and they are to have an equal partnership with the crown, all of Canada's unceded land is reserved for them to enjoy and as their hunting grounds. There was to be 2 paths...one for the indigenous and one for the non-indigenous. So really, the provincial and territorial governments have to go. Ouch Canada, sad but true!
+1 vote

Here's an interesting Thesis about the very Acadian ppl being discussed here (not Jean, but the other founding families)pgs 72, 73, 74, please look at the tables. Anyone who can read french and translate it correctly, may want to have a go at this.

 [https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/thesescanada/vol2/002/MR93167.pdf]

I would just like to state, it seems funny to me, that some on wikitree will demand that sources be accurate for birth records, baptisms, deaths, etc..but when no records are found, if  one specific professional genealogist says.. they are from France, it must be so, because their gr.grandson or gr.greatgranddaughter or gr.son-in-law on Belle Ile en Merr  said they came from there, so that must be correct!...EXCUSE ME????????  I'm NOT ALLowed on Wikitree for the  Information my mom gave about her grandmother who RAISED her, ACtually Raised my mom..but my moms' knowledge of grandmothers name death date, birth date is not acceptable based on my mothers memory..yet someone of 2 generations later and sometimes 3 is>??????  i say again...excuse me???  and by the way, if they came from france...show me the proof?  if the parents are unknown, then noone actually knows squat!  and dna/mtdna.. whatever...one minute it is this, then suddenly substrains change it. sooo half of the ones said to be Native could end up being Latin American, Brazil  or some Island for all anyone knows really.  And every document I've read on Mtdna, and Dna, has told me that the testing only goes back about 4 generations, so anything further is assumed, at least from all I've read.  & the things I've read are written by genetics professionals.. but I'm not gunna waste my time pullin these docs to prove my point. The point here is, IF the PARENTS are UNKNOWN, and the Spouse is UnKnown, then NOONE knows for sure..its BLANK..jeeez.. the continual arguiing back and forth over..they Are native ..they aren't native!  find the names and their parents, then you have some more actual answers

Sorry, but this is the same continual bull-arkey that goes on in other groups...Euro against - non-Euro...isn't this genealogy here?

& btw for any of you that wanna throw statistics or genetic facts back at me over what I just felt needed saying..go for it.  I won't be reading them, at this point, honestly, seeing over and over in  2 different G2G topics, similar  arguementative convos about native vs. not native I'm beginning to see more clearly how this place works.  again....isn't wikitree about genealogy, and finding the truths? not assuming anything?  for 20+ years, thats what i knew it as...but the rules seem to change if they are Acadian and records can't be located..why is that

answered by Arora Anonymous G2G6 Mach 1 (16.5k points)
Oh and one more thing..about sources and facts, ON here on Wikitree, more than once, heck more than 5 times I've seen profiles I had just created, less than a week or 2 old, end up with that gray-UNSourced Profile box covering the top of the bios. I even saw it on my cousins' page about her DEAD MOTHER!!!.. you read that right. My cousin was just starting her genealogy on here. she was just putting in the names then was going to go back and add all her sources, birth, marriage, deaths, DAR, BIA, and other things...but she gets physically sic and works on it only when she is able. good ole wikitree's sourcers, made sure to make note of the fact that she was the only source on her mom and dad's pages, and declared the pages unsourced!.. NOw She's ALive, and held her mother on her death bed literally...BUT According to Wikitree standards, she's NOT A Source! sooo if she's not, and she did literally hold her mom thru her dying last breaths!...if she's not a source I say again, then why should ONE Licensed Genealogist who has shown no source other than 3rd, 4th, etc party info from some doc. in Belle Ile En Merr...why should his word or the document which HAS HAD WRONG NAMES GIVEN MORE Than ONce! why should this Doc. be Concidered PROOF??..IF a LIVING DAUGHTer is  NOT proof of the dates of her moms birth or death, why should some EXTENDED FAMILY 2 or even 3 generations or even 2 o3 generations & married into! be considered verified proof???.. ITS NOT!  sorry, this was just really irks me! lol
0 votes
Yes there is evidence that Radegonde was Native American.

Her haplogroup was X2b4-T226C. It has long been known that people with the T226C mutation match the Anzick sample. Since the Anzick child existed long before there were any migrations to North America, that's pretty much proof. There have been a lot of people trying to alter this fact but the unaltered results of the following study confirms the truth.  http://shawnee-bluejacket.com/uploads/3/5/4/9/3549915/pekowibluejacler_haplogroup_catalog_2.pdf

In addition, the following information from page 61 of Leopold Lanctot's book supports the above assertion and is therefore the only credible version of Radegonde's origin that exists.  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/66789817#view-photo=135688036
answered by Bud St Amand G2G Crew (810 points)

No. There is no evidence that Radegonde is Native American. She has a common European mitochondrial haplotype that cannot be pre-Columbian Native American.

She shares that haplotype with a small group of present day Native Americans, who in turn got it from a European ancestor, according to the person who conducted the study.

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