What proof is there that Richard Barnes was the father of the children shown on his profile? [closed]

+6 votes
I am wondering what source(s) people have to connect Richard "Shawnee" Barnes to the daughters shown.  I've never located any sources myself, and unless someone has strong sources I propose he be detached.

My interest in the profile is that my 5th great-grandmother, Alcey (surname unknown but some think it was Odom) (Odom-337) who married Benjamin Kirkland is given a name on Wikitree of "Chotawolina" and shown as the daughter of Abraham Odom and Sibyl Barnes, with Sibly shown as the daughter of the above mentioned Richard Barnes.

Please provide evidence of these family connections...
WikiTree profile: Richard Barnes
closed with the note: There is no proof.
in Genealogy Help by Darlene Athey-Hill G2G6 Pilot (436k points)
closed by Darlene Athey-Hill

This link was just provided on my post with regard to Sybil Barnes Odom, shedding a non too positive light on the sole source of the claim with regard to Mary being his daughter (and still no sources for the other daughters):  http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.ethnic.natam.nations.shawnee.shawneenat/169/mb.ashx

2 Answers

+2 votes
Perhaps reviewing the sources and links and editing the profile makes more sense?   If those links saying Richard Barnes is the father are unsourced it should be noted.  Do the other profile managers want to detach it?
by Marc Snelling G2G6 (7.2k points)
More sense than what?  

There is nothing on the profile or 'sources' showing him as the father.  Thus my G2G post. We have many inactive PMs on Wikitree.  So we post on G2G in case anyone has information about the family referenced.  I've done a lot of research on the Kirkland line, as have other diligent researchers, and I am unaware of any data proving or even implying the connections shown.  If someone has uncovered evidence, that will make me a very happy camper...
More sense to mark it 'unsourced' than to remove it outright.

Hello everyone, 

I just came across this discussion as I too was doing research on April Tikami. I found a lady named Tammy Nauquit who seems to have quite a bit of information. I will try and get a hold of her tomorrow. 

Has anyone found new info? 


Kristin Kirkland-Stephens

Sorry, but “April Tikami Hop” is a completely mythical person. Richard Barnes was a white man who died in Chowan County, NC in 1758.  The distribution of the estates of Richard and his wife Mary suggest that daughter Mary Vann was the daughter of Mary Barnes and an unknown husband. I don’t think there is documentation which proves that Edward Vann’s second wife Charity was a Barnes, and/or who her parents were.  Mary and Charity were white women married to a white man.
+2 votes

Hey Darlene,

The oral traditions of Native Peoples, First Peoples, etc. sometimes, or most of the time make sources hard to come by if at all. So providing "evidence" could be problematic. In this case detaching them seems to me not a good move, unless there is some sourcing to prove they are not the daughters.

My two and a half cents added to Seneca's (Marc) two and a half cents.


by Mags Gaulden G2G6 Pilot (551k points)
Jonathan, my comments are still applicable. We need DNA to confirm/disprove ancestry.
My husband is a descendant of Charity Barnes and Edward Vann. His DNA shows absolutely no Indian heritage, not even a fraction of a percent.

So this isn't proof, but it is more information to share. My Mom is a descendant of Caleb Kirkland Sr. Ancestry.com shows a connection of this person to Richard "Shawnee" Barnes Jr. I ran my moms DNA info through GEDmatch Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Admixture Proportions and it showed 4 percent American Indian on my moms Chromosome 1. If this is accurate data, the DNA could have come from Richard Barnes as that is the most likely source in my particular family line... Could be data "noise", or could be from someone else in the family? Are there other Caleb Kirkland Sr. descendants with more then 2 percent admixture NA DNA?

My dad, using the Gedmatch Eurogenes test you used, has a small amount of Amerindian reported on several chromosomes (none on chr. 1).  The largest is 7.2% on chr. 18.  It will require a triangulated group to try and prove a connection to Richard Barnes and/or his wife...

May be a clue?

Moses Kirkland, the South Carolina backcountry loyalist who had been in exile since 1775, now reappeared on the scene. In the winter of 1778, Kirkland, now John Stuart's deputy to the Seminole-Creeks, was directed to escort some Creek headmen to St. Augustine for talks with Augustine Prevost on how the Indians might participate in combined operations against the rebels.

*John Stuart father of the Bushyhead Cherokee Clan.

Kirkland, Moses, Memorial For 300 Acres On Edistoe River, Summarizing A Chain Of Title To A Grant To William Moultrie Of Feb. 22, 1771. Date: 2/4/1772

People in this record:
Kirkland, Benjamin; Kirkland, Moses
Also: Duke, John; Moultrie, William; Singuefield, Aaron
Places in this record:
Edisto River; Rocky Branch

Year: 1790 State: South Carolina County: Orangeburgh Sheet No: 250
Reel no: M637-11 District: South
Enumerated by: Daniel Green
Transcribed by Cheryl Hill for USGenWeb,
http://www.usgwcensus.org/. Copyright: 2003

39 | George Sizemore | 2 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | S256 | (*Creek Indian per family DNA NA Haplogroup direct male NA ancestor; married into my Green family; *my notes)
40 | Benjamin Kirkland | 3 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | K624 |
41 | William Green | 5 2 | 6 | 0 | 4 | G650 |
42 | John Randel | 2 4 | 6 | 0 | 2 | R534 |
43 | Edward, Sen'r. Van | 2 5 | 3 | 0 | 0 | V500 |
44 | Edward, Jun'r. Van | 1 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | V500 |
45 | Martin Cloud | 1 1 | 1 | 0 | * | C430 | *Unreadable

Hi Troy, this would be Moses Kirkland, my 1C8R!

This Kirkland line, which is one from which my paternal grandmother descends, has been researched for several decades by groups of researchers, and more recently (book published in 2002) by Dr. James Peacock.  No one ever located any information for a Native American marriage...

Regarding dna, and your husband's lack of Native ethnicity.  One can expect 12% for a great grandparent, 6% for a 2nd great, 3%-0 for a 3rd great grandparent.  Adding to this, is a lack of pure Native dna available to testing sites. It's unlikely your husband would show Native ethnicity in this case and he could still have Native ancestors.
This is an interesting thread. I am at least double related to the BARNES family, at least double related to the ODOM/OLDHAM/ODAM family and I've been tracking down my relationship to the SIZEMORES in KY/VA/NC. Like many I show no native DNA with either an ancestry.com or 23andme test, but there is a small signature found on gedmatch.com.  For what it's worth I am eligble for membership into the Southern Cherokee of KY as well as the Enchota Cherokee of AL, neither of which have federal recognition but do have native status in their respective states.

I too am attempting to sort this line out.
Hi Jonathan, Showing no Native Ancestry is ok.  For a 3rd great grandparent who might be full blood, one would expect to show 0-3% ethnicity.  Considering the fact that so many Cherokee were not full blood in the 1700's - this would in fact be normal. I show dna matches to the Barnes, the Sizemores and the Odom's as well.  They match an unknown line for me.  If you would like to email me please do.  I've been mapping out dna matches.  Karen
This question was closed long ago since there is no evidence of a NativeAmerican connection in these families

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