Margaret plantagenet 1454-1472. Any Verified documents? Who were her parents?

+6 votes
Hello my name is christina and I'm searching for verified records on my direct ancestor by marriage : Her name is Margaret plantagenet. supposedly daughter of the french born Edward 1V and Elizabeth wydeville Plantagenet born grey. Margaret was born around c.1454-1472 died young around age 18, 19  to John prime Born 1440 thriplow cambridge England. He's my direct ancestor  (14th generation.)  Appartly they had two sons thomas and John. One died/possibly still born. The other married a katheryine or katherine. On my heritage there are several family trees that have Margaret in their line. THE PLOT  thickens when we remind ourselves that there were several Margaret plantagenets born around the same era and time. One who died after a few months and I think two other Margaret plantagenets! Nobody seems to be able to help me or verify who she is and belongs to. I would have thought medieval records are hard to track down get right and or missing info....but am desperate to find who she belongs to. I've looked and hunted on family search where I added all the info I could glean from the several 'my heritage'  member family tree sites and also on geni itself  family search and My heritage, and she IS there in other people's family trees but I cannot seem to find verified documentation. But she must exist because she is married to my direct verified John Prime (spellings vary) prym pryme with their two sons who were very easy to find.

However a 'geni' curator tells me  there are no verified records. Despite at least 12 claims of My heritage members who have margaret in their family trees! She is not included in any public royal house info books etc that I know of. Hitt so many brick walls for months. Can anyone please help?? Would be greatful.  Kind regards chrissie  or Christina Manfredi. (Nee Wallis coleman prime prym pryme family.)
in The Tree House by

1 Answer

+1 vote

I have only done a very quick search on wikipedia, but you  may be confusing two Margaret Plantagenets who lived at similar times. 

1. Margaret of York (10 April 1472 – 11 December 1472) was a namesake niece of Margaret of YorkDuchess of Burgundy. She was the fifth child and fourth daughter of Edward IV of England and Elizabeth Woodville.

2. Margaret b 1454 married John Prime/Prym. There seems to be a question as to whether she was a Plantagenet. There is a discussion going on on Find A grave that you might find interesting.

I would be questioning why a Plantagenet princess would be marrying an unknown commoner at this time in history. In any case, the daughter of Edward IV died as an infant.

Sorry to break the potentially bad news. I do not doubt that you are descended from John and his wife Margaret, but whether she was a princess, I would be questioning.



by Susan Scarcella G2G6 Mach 6 (69.4k points)
Thankyou for your reply.

I too, have wondered why a princess would marry a commoner. The simple gut instinct tells me in medieval times  it often did happen as it does today and often the person would be either ignored sent to coventary bumped off executed or called a bastard and sent away. And if so she would want to remain hidden if you like for the rest of her life cut off which would explain her obscure parentage origins. The fact that she died so young also had me thinking. Of course you could be right. She may not be a plantagenet at all but then why would the surname randomly be attached to her? Its not a very common name outside titled folk at all. Also there are the facts that my John prime was a very educated man. There is verified info he gained two honourable degrees and more-  the surname wells and manning crops up in the line once or twice too. So If my humble john was a commoner he certainly could have had some dealings with the  aristocracy. I looked up the origin of the surname prime some while ago incidentally, and it signifed in those days to be of choice top best ie prime beef prime location prime etc.just a thought.. Two surnames linked with the aristocracy as you know are the lancastarian mannings and also the wells. Just a thought. But as you say I could be entirely wrong...lets not forget though Edward had at least 3 mistresses that we know of and illegitamate off spring too.

P.s. Although very ordinary I have my doubts that John was hardly a commoner. In the 1500's most ordinary people could read or write.  And very few outside well connected wealthy families could have afforded  two oxford degrees from one of the most prestigous for the time universities. There are also a couple of other primes in my family with coats of arms.  [Red and white background with a leg.]  An Elizabeth prime for example has this. Thats why I have been persuing this illusive of all maddening mysteries! :-)
There's a roasted chicken take-away in my neighborhood that also has this coat of arms.(Red and white background with a leg)!  :D
P.S. Yes to the first reply: the discussion you mention on Geni was me! asking the same question that no one seems able to reply.  lol. :)

Despite the fact that he could read and write, he was still, by class, a commoner. By the 15th C more middle class were  literate than you might expect. The great Geoffrey Chaucer lived just before this time (c. 1343 – 25 October 1400) and he was very literate, though he was a tradesman's son. He managed to rise high in the ranks of the court, being in the employ of Prince John of Gaunt, and acting as a spy for Edward III (due to his skill with French). He married one of the wards of Queen Philippa, Philippa de Roet, whose sister caused a scandal by becoming first the mistress, then wife of Prince John of Gaunt (and mother to four of his children), but this was all well recorded. Had a Plantagenet daughter, even an illegitimate one, married a man without a title, it would have been written down. Once again a generation or so before your time, one of the highest non royals in the country, 12 yo Matilda de Brocas ran off with 14 yo John Foxley, whose father, though the architect for Windsor Castle and a landowner, was nevertheless a commoner. The two lovebirds caused a firestorm that is well recorded. Only the fact that they had consummated the marriage by the time they were caught made her father accept the marriage, but he went for the priest who performed the ceremony.

Dear Susan Scarcella

I thank you very kindly for your informative carefully considered fascinating and interesting comments. This still doesn't explain why the royal plantagenet surname was randomly placed in the middle of my Prym/Prime's family history by so many.  It's all still a maddening mystery to me. I totally agree and accept what you are saying. I also totally agree that most of the illegitamacies would have been recorded somewhere surely and written down,but still doesn't prove either way. You've given me good food for thought though, and the geni link you kindly quote was by my good self. But the education was fascinating. I just wish someone somewhere would be kind enough to help me directly research who WHAT her maiden name was and HOW Margaret's maiden name was randomly put as a plantaganet?!  A lovely gentleman who did try to help me with this mystery was able to send me fantasticly interesting copies of wills- of other closely related primes of my prime ancestors around this similar period which gave very interesting clues and insights. He wasn't able to glean anything directly involving Margaret as her maiden surname written in faded non decihperal readable English that we have today at all clearly.  However. and this might be very important- the surname NONELEY seems to be connected in some way to her.  Any suggestions anyone?

Can anyone on here shed more light on her maiden name other than my basic initial results typing in the origins of this surname together with variants as originating from Canada?  All comments and relevant to the subject appreciated here.


Many sincere thanks.

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