How do I create a Category for Vilich, Rheinprovinz, Preußen?

Question

I would like to categorize several profiles of people who lived in Vilich in the 19th Century.  Using Andreas West's very helpful instructions in a previous thread: http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/156034/which-category-in-germany-do-my-ancestors-belong?show=156034#q156034, I located Vilich on GOV: http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/VILICHJO30NS, I believe I could create the historical category above, but I wonder if should also locate it in its current status within the Beuel district of Bonn.  The change in status of Bonn from a rural district to an urban district also seems hard to handle because of the different dates of the Vilich/Beuel status change and the Bonn district status change.

Comments

Rheinprovinz was only created in 1822, before Vilich was in the Provinz Jülich-Kleve-Berg.

---

Thank you, Helmet.  I guess my question was a little broader, about places that have changed over time:  since Vilich was in Landkreis Bonn from 1810 to 1969 and then in Stadt Bonn since 1969, and although I am really only interested now in the period of the profiles I'd like to categorize, i.e. when Bonn was a Landkreis, do I create both the historical district and the current district.  I wondered if there would be some confusion if I didn't acknowledge that Bonn's status was changed in 1969.  Once that is settled, does Landkreis Bonn go into Provinz Jülich-Kleve-Berg and Rheinprovinz, and Nordrhein Westfalen, even though I don't yet see a higher category for Jülich-Kleve-Berg. (I hope this is making sense.)

---

I have usually only categorized profiles to the current political situation but then put a timeline with the political changes on the category page (see the yellowish side bar in http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Rudolfov%2C_okres_%C4%8Cesk%C3%A9_Bud%C4%9Bjovice as example).

---

Helmut, is there a project that has done some thinking about this with respect to Germany?  This would certainly seem tricky given the shifting borders and entities through much of the last milennium - and before.  But if thinking has already been done on how these place should best be categorized, that certainly would be the pattern to follow.  

As I member of the categorization project, we have an overall interest in these things, of course, but there is so much work to do that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

---

That's why I actually wanted to have a template for Germany (or two, one in German and one in English), both being on every category page pointing to the lengthy instructions I've wrote on best practices & guidelines.

So yes Jack, that work was being done with the help of Helmut.

I'm on mobile right now and can't post the link, if someone please could add it?

---

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Structure_and_how_to_use_regional_categories_for_Germany

---

Andreas , Helmut and all who worked on this above link. Thank You, this will make my life simple. :) JPVIV :)

Answer 1

Hi Meg,

first of all always consider this:

How to use categories in your profiles

Always use the lowest possible category in your ancestor profiles, usually the town/village and don't put them in North Rhine-Westphalia or other higher level categories. Please use search to find it first: https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl?cx=003048598688029858478:aemrovxydzo) and if it's not found enter it in its German writing with a comma and the State it's in.

Eg: Köln, Nordrhein-Westfalen and not Cologne, North Rhine-Westphalia

-------------------------------

Also, that's why I wanted to have a link to this guideline on every location (as part of a link or a template, however its technically done), please read the guideline carefully, it hopefully answers all your questions (otherwise we should add the answer to your questions):

http://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Space:Structure_and_how_to_use_regional_categories_for_Germany&public=1

------------------------------

If you search you will find out that both Preussen as well as the Rheinprovinz already exist as categories and both are properly assigned:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Rheinprovinz%2C_Preu%C3%9Fen

------------------------------

You will also find out that Bonn is actually wrongly assigned (where Vilich should point to), it must be Bonn (Kreis). Will correct that in a minute.

There is absolutely no problem with assigning historical locations, it's actually welcome. It's just that we don't have the time and even correcting all those location categories that are constantly entered wrongly in Germany aren't properly taken care of.

Comments

Hope it's correct now, Meg, I edited the profile directly. See the new categories here:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Vilich_%28Beuel%29%2C_Nordrhein-Westfalen

As Helmut wrote, this is the current format of Vilich being part of Beuel (a town).

---

Thank you, Andreas. I was hoping you would weigh in.  I did study your "How to use regional categories" guide and was all set to go, but was afraid of making errors with categories as they change over time.  I can add several profiles to the Vilich category you set up and may have additional questions as I try to categorize profiles of earlier ancestors, e.g. Helmut's noting that Jülich-Kleve-Berg precedes Rheinprovinz.  Also, do I understand that the earlier category for Bonn should eventually be merged into the one you set up? 

---

Do I also understand correctly that I could also create Category: Vilich, Rheinprovinz? I see you have Bonn (Kreis) in both Nordrhein-Westfalen and Rheinprovinz?  If so, would that be the correct category for Adelheid who wasn't living when Nordrhein-Westfalen was established?

---

Meg,

 

there should only be one lowest category which the profile should be in. Hence we don't want for German locations the lowest category to be in English. That was never the case and will never be the case (unless Germany discontinues to exist and is taken over by another English speaking country).

As for the `old` historic structure with `Jülich-Kleve-Berg`you can check if that exists already and if not, you can add it where it should belong. Please do always consult gov.genealogy.net and scroll down to see the superordinate objects. It states that `Jülich-Kleve-Berg` is pointing into the `Preußen` category which itself points to the `Staatenbund Deutscher Bund`. This is how we should set up historic categories.

 

Here's the link to the entry in GOV: http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/object_1047283

 

Thanks for taking the time to study the guidelines and trying to help improve the categories. I wish we had a couple more engaged and informed people like you!

---

Oh and in regards to the question on where should Adelheid be as `Nordrhein-Westfalen` didn't exist back then. That's true but if we would allow a second category of just `Vilich` then people would misunderstand that and create wrong (as per guidelines) categories all over the place which won't have the federal state attached (in German!).

Hope you understand that. The historic background is been taken care of if you add `Jülich-Kleve-Berg`which will point up to the correct historic path.

That's just my personal opinion, maybe Helmut wants to chime in? 

---

I suppose the historical location can be covered in the biography, and, as you said, it is important to have only one category name for the lowest level place, and not a proliferation of categories.  I think people working on location categories in other countries are also wrestling with this issue.  Thanks again.

---

I would suggest you cover the historical context in the historical location category. Check out the entry for the Rheinprovinz and others, they have either used Wikipedia or some excellent explanations from when to when it was used and all the other context about the history of that entry.

 

IMO it should be at only one place, instead of several place (meaning profiles), all in different versions.

---

Yes, I can attempt to do a summary for Vilich using Wikipedia (over the next few days).  It won't be anything as attractive as what Helmut has done for Rudolfov, but I hope it will add some historical background.

---

I went ahead and tried to summarize the Wikipedia article on Vilich.  Since there is no English version, I tried to work with the German text, using Google translate. I'd welcome someone checking it.  And if I have violated copyright, please shorten it just to the essentials.

Answer 2

Meg, I have much to learn about Categories... perhaps this previous G2G discussion will help you:

http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/238585/english-and-non-english-category 

From wikitree.com Help Index:

Categories:

  about: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Categorization

  naming: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category_Names

  personal: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Personal_Categories

  project: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Categorization

  search: https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl?

cx=003048598688029858478:aemrovxydzo

  FAQ: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category_FAQ . 

 

You might join the Project Categorization or contact members in this project for the specific help you need. Maybe others can better guide to the help you need... :) JPVIV